button input select (toggle switch recognition)

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30 May 2015 14:56 #33241 by Durete
So finally this capability fits the 7e ?
Wow! Congrats guys. :)

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30 May 2015 15:25 - 30 May 2015 15:34 #33242 by Philipp
Although I really enjoy this feature on my Taranis running openTX, I personally would not want to trade in the USB capabilities of my Devo7e for this.
This would be nice to have and very convenient, definetly, but on a TX that comes with just two toggle switches and is only capable of two additional ones, this seems not too relevant, at least to me personally.
I understand your argument of keeping the input handling consistent across the whole range of radios. If this is possible without sacrificing the USB capabilities, this would be great and render my arguments invalid :D. //EDIT: Just read your last post PB, apparently it is. Great job, nvm :whistle:

I just cycled through all possible inputs in the mixer menu of my Devo7E:
None, AIL, ELE, THR, RUD, HOLD0, HOLD1, FMODE0, FMODE1, Ch1, [...], Ch12, Virt1, [...], Virt10, PPM1, [...], PPM8

Of all these only the bold ones would benefit from this feature, right? Or putting it differently, only physical inputs would have toggle recognition for now?

OT, but slightly related to this: Why are there two menu entries for FMODE and HOLD aswell as the option to invert each of them? Does !FMODE1 not equal FMODE0?
Last edit: 30 May 2015 15:34 by Philipp.

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30 May 2015 16:30 #33245 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic button input select (toggle switch recognition)
This is just the straw that broke the camel's back. I refuse to limit the capabilities of all transmitters due to the Devo7e weaknesses. At the moment nothing has been removed, but something will have to give.

The reason that we have FMODE0 and FMODE1 is because some transmitters ave 3-way switches and others have 2-way switches for the same purpose. In order to be able to share model files across transmitters, you need to assign functions to specific switch states.. Pre 4.0, it worked the way you expect, but I changed it to make the coding easier and the models more portable.

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30 May 2015 17:13 #33250 by Philipp
Well, at least for now no functionality is lost for the little Devo7E, which is great.
Everybody appreciates the work and effort you and other members of this community put into developing Deviation further and constantly adding more features to it. Therefore I fully understand that you won't let the hardware limitations of just one small radio limit you in your development efforts, which is definitely the right mindset.

Deviation has made so much more out of the little Devo7E and makes it a very compelling radio, please don't get me wrong. I see that we'll have to live with some sacrifices in the long term, unless Walkera recognizes the value Deviation adds to their radios and decides to spend a couple cents more in parts to overcome the current hardware limitations.

I believe the flash size is the current bottleneck of the Devo7E, is this right? Is the flash seperate to the microcontroller, therefore upgradeable? I know that modding puts a lot of potential users of, especially if we're talking about soldering smd chips onto radio mainboards, but as you've said, the camels neck will break. If 'simply' replacing the flash chip of the Devo7E would overcome the most significant limitations, it could be worth it for some users. I know this particular question is off topic, if there's a thread better suited for this I'll continue the discussion there.

Thanks for the explanation regarding FMODE0 and FMODE1, this makes sense to me now.

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30 May 2015 17:55 #33252 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic button input select (toggle switch recognition)
On the 7e, the problem is the MCU (the big SMD chip on the board that does all the work). It is possible to replace it with a different one with more memory, but it requires extensive soldering experience and proper equipment (rework station). It think it is probably out of the range of consideration. If you have the skill to replace the MCU, you can easily turn back on whatever features that I remove.

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30 May 2015 18:48 - 30 May 2015 18:57 #33253 by Philipp
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I was hoping the 2MB SPI flash was the limiting factor, which would've simplified upgrading. I guess at some point I might have to try pulling the STM32F103RB off the board and replacing it with a STM32F103RC or STM32F103RE with a little bit more oomph. Cutting its legs and cleaning the pads is doable without a rework station after all, but kind of ugly and risky. I guess only very few people would risk it.

I'd like to see a revised Devo7E with 4 toggle switches, full range and a more capable mcu, but Walkera won't make one of its bottom line radios so powerful i guess, but hey, this keeps up the spirit of modding...

I might order one of the STM Nucleo boards and play with that as an learning experience.
Last edit: 30 May 2015 18:57 by Philipp.

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30 May 2015 19:08 #33254 by FDR

Philipp wrote: I'd like to see a revised Devo7E with 4 toggle switches, full range and a more capable mcu, but Walkera won't make one of its bottom line radios so powerful i guess, but hey, this keeps up the spirit of modding...

They call that DEVO 6. :)

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30 May 2015 19:18 - 30 May 2015 19:26 #33255 by Philipp
True, at least it shares the case and therefore the size of the 7E, but costs 2~3 times more. I'm not saying that it's price is unjustified, I'm saying that 5$ in parts would make the 7E much more powerful, especially in combination with Deviation. Maybe to powerful from Walkeras point of view. I know that I can buy more powerful radios with more powerful hardware for more money, but where's the fun in that? ;)
Last edit: 30 May 2015 19:26 by Philipp.

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30 May 2015 19:29 - 30 May 2015 19:30 #33258 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic button input select (toggle switch recognition)
Yes that has been my point since the beginning. For $1-$2 extra in BOM cost they could have made the 7e into a truly great transmitter. The 12S and F12E are both limited by dumb budgetary items like this as well (in that case, the SPI Flash chip size). the F7 is pretty terrible all around, taking the worst choices of multiple transmitters to build something too expensive. It is clear Walkera is now focusing on the drone market and letting their Other Tx fall to the wayside. It would be nice if someone would pick up the torch and build a $50-$80 budget minded Tx in a small form-factor ideal for the swarm of minis and micros flooding the market.
Last edit: 30 May 2015 19:30 by PhracturedBlue.

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30 May 2015 19:45 - 30 May 2015 19:54 #33263 by Philipp
Yes, that's what I'm talkin about!! :silly:
The 7E is almost perfect for all these micro helis and quads due to Deviation, what frustrates me is that this 'almost' is only because of a few dollars (if at all) saved in total cost, just like you said.
On the other hand, it was never meant to run Deviation, never designed to be this powerful.

PhracturedBlue wrote: [...]It would be nice if someone would pick up the torch and build a $50-$80 budget minded Tx in a small form-factor ideal for the swarm of minis and micros flooding the market.

Walkera could do this easily, everything is there! Deviation runs on it, the ergonomics and size of the shell are well received, the CYRF chip is quite versatile. The price is right and people would pay 15$ to 25$ more for these features, which would cost Walkera only a few dollars more to implement.

It would be great if Walkera would listen to you regarding some design aspects of their radios, somewhat like the guys from FrSky and openTX.
I know that I am dreaming here, but just imagine a Devo7D (for Deviation B) ) with 512kb flash on the mcu, 4 toggles, and the single board multi module you guys are developing, for around 100$ This would be THE ONE radio to rule all the toy grade stuff.
Last edit: 30 May 2015 19:54 by Philipp.

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