2 quick questions.

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02 Nov 2012 03:38 - 02 Nov 2012 03:39 #2597 by Hexperience
2 quick questions. was created by Hexperience
1) When trying out a new firmware, I know I have to replace the filesystem but do the settings in the model ini files change? I don't need to setup the models each time right? I can just copy them back in(?)

2) Playing with DSM2 is a lot of fun, but I wanted to know how confident we are in the DEVO protocol? Was it reverse engineered as well? I don't mind testing out new code, but just want to know so when I go to fly my V120 I might switch back to the official walkera firmware for that one. But if the protocol is 100% rock solid for Devo then I'll just continue to use deViation for the V120 and test for the DSM stuff.

Either way... loads of fun and learning a lot too.
CHEERS!

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
Last edit: 02 Nov 2012 03:39 by Hexperience.

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02 Nov 2012 04:13 #2600 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic 2 quick questions.
I'm trying really hard to keep backwards compatibility in the model.ini file. Currently you can use an old model.ini file with current firmware, and I'll do my best to keep it this way. There are a few quirks (like the safety feature isn't set to 'auto' in old model files).

The Devo protocol was also reverse engineered, but not in precisely the same way as DSM has been. I'm not going to make claims of reliability, but in my opinion, it is the most stable of the supported protocols. Lots of folks here have been flying 4 and 6 channel helis using the Devo protocol.

The WK2801 is in pretty good shape. Im not aware of any issues with it currently.

The WK2601 protocol still has real issues, and probably isn't really ready to use.

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02 Nov 2012 10:50 #2607 by Hexperience
Replied by Hexperience on topic 2 quick questions.
Thanks PB. Have you had any feed back on the RX2702v (or rx2702v-d)?

Now that I have a Walkera Tx I was thinking about trying one of those Rx/FBLs and compare it to the ar7200bx.

Cheers

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.

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02 Nov 2012 12:24 #2612 by NotFastEnuf
Replied by NotFastEnuf on topic 2 quick questions.
I can't help with code or protocol but I am going to put some real effort into uncovering any issues with 2602 protocol. I have plenty of foamies I am willing to sacrifice so I am going to put it through the paces. So far the only issue I see is with ch 6 input overriding ch 3 throttle. Going to try to disable ch 6 completely in the mixer tonight so there is no accidental input here and put it in the air this weekend.

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02 Nov 2012 18:08 #2618 by flint723
Replied by flint723 on topic 2 quick questions.

Hexperience wrote: Thanks PB. Have you had any feed back on the RX2702v (or rx2702v-d)?

Now that I have a Walkera Tx I was thinking about trying one of those Rx/FBLs and compare it to the ar7200bx.

Cheers


I have been using a 2702v-d (short antenna) on a 450 pro for 6 months (3 weeks on Deviation) with no problems. But on RCgroups forums there have been lost signal issues reported on 2801 compatible 2702's(with 2801 pro tx, not deviation). Also Wowhobbies (and others) have a long antenna version of the 2702 that is supposed to cure the lock outs.

As far as comparing to the AR7200bx, I doubt you will be impressed with the 2702. I have a Tarot ZYX and I like how it flies better than the 2702. But the 2702 flies really well too.

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03 Nov 2012 16:51 - 03 Nov 2012 16:53 #2641 by dado099
Replied by dado099 on topic 2 quick questions.
I have an old T-Rex 450 V2 with flybarless head.
I have 2702V RX (2801 pro version).
I flied a lot with 2801 Pro and was very impressed, a great receiver
(and a great TX).

Now I'm porting it to Deviation software, but I have to say that this
software is not very good with 120 degrees shawspaltes, probabily
because a lot of WK have normal (90 degrees mode), so may be 120 is a
little undervalued. The main issue is the unavailability of swashplate mix
control (also cheap radios have it) and another issue is that you loose
fixed id binding.
I've yet to try a flyable setup, and I will keep tou informed how's going on.

Always a great thanks to PB to make this possible.
Last edit: 03 Nov 2012 16:53 by dado099.

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03 Nov 2012 17:25 #2643 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic 2 quick questions.
There is swasplate mixing.
Try to apply the 6ch heli template to a new model to see how it looks like.
Click on helicopter on the model config page to select the CCPM type...

BTW I doubt the 2702 needs it...

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03 Nov 2012 17:37 #2645 by dado099
Replied by dado099 on topic 2 quick questions.
Thanks FDR, I know there is swashplate mixing,
but it's not tunable (you can only reverse the action).
On a normal 120 TX (ex. 2801) you have this menu:

SWASHMIX:
-> ELEV 60%
AILE 60%
PIT. 55%

On Deviation is totally missing. :(

It is almost essential to setup 120 swashplate travels in a correct way.

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03 Nov 2012 17:45 #2647 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic 2 quick questions.
You can set those limits at the channel 1, 2, and 6 config's scale value, to which the cyclic 1, 2 and 3 are assigned.

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03 Nov 2012 18:23 #2651 by dado099
Replied by dado099 on topic 2 quick questions.

FDR wrote: You can set those limits at the channel 1, 2, and 6 config's scale value, to which the cyclic 1, 2 and 3 are assigned.

I'm sorry FDR but I have to insist, the "scale" value you are referring to,
alters the curve ending points like altering pitch curve on a normal radio.
In this way you cannot have a full -100 +100 curve but you have to reduce at, let's say -80 +80.
Instead if you have swashmix menu, you set the total travel for pitch, aile and
ele here, and you still have a full -100 +100 curve to play with.
Trust me it's not the same, if you have still doubts please go to helifreak.com
and take a look at bob's video regarding 120 swhashplate setup !
(I have almost 10 years experience with this and I know what I'm saying)
Thanks anyway.

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03 Nov 2012 18:36 #2652 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic 2 quick questions.
I need to understand better how to implement what you need.

today we calculate a 120 swash via:
a' = aileron * 60%
e' = elevator * 60%
c' = collective * 60 %
cyc1 = c' - a'
cyc2 = c' + a'/2 + e'
cyc3 = c' + a'/2 - e'
If I understand the swashmix properly, it would instead do (for instance)
a' = aileron * 55%
e' = elevator * 65%
c' = collective * 60%
you should be able to get a very similar result by changing the scale on the virt1,2,3 channels

However, for fine tuning, that is probably pretty annoying (you'd need to go back and forth between several pages), so adding the ability to directly control the swashmix in one place may make sense. Still I'd want to understand if the above approach would actually do what you want it to.

Also, is there a requirement in a swashmix that the 3 values always add to a constant? I.e. if I increase the collective mix, is it required that either elevator or aileron mix decreases, or can the sum be > 180%?

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03 Nov 2012 19:11 #2653 by dado099
Replied by dado099 on topic 2 quick questions.
Yes PB, you are totally right.
The scale value in each virt. channel is what affects the mixing limit for the 3 mixed channels.
You can alter these, but you have to repeat for every mix page (very annoying,
complex and subject to errors) moreover you loose -100 +100 limit curves.
All the normal radios add these offsets BEFORE curves are computed, to keep
always -100 +100 limit curves. I'm not a programmer but I think this effect
is obtained with some simple maths.
Sorry again for the posts length, but If you check how many radios out of 100
have swashmix menu, the answer is 100, so there must be a reason.....

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03 Nov 2012 19:29 - 03 Nov 2012 19:29 #2654 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic 2 quick questions.
I still got the feeling, that you are always talking about scale on the mixer pages, while we are talking about the final scale value at the channel properties, which should be set once, and you would still have your curves at 100%.

So I was talking about this: model menu -> click "1-ELE" -> scale (one before last).

PB was rerefering to this too on the virtual channels, which do not have this option yet, but if they would have, that would be identical in function to your swash mix values...
Last edit: 03 Nov 2012 19:29 by FDR.

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03 Nov 2012 19:43 #2655 by magic_marty
Replied by magic_marty on topic 2 quick questions.
i could be wrong as i don't quite understand all the swash mix mumbo jumbo ...but how much travel do you need? i have never used 100% travel because: 1 its way to much pitch
2 it will bind the swash plate to the point were it wont function properly...
3 in a flybarless heli the responce is much better and 100% travel in not needed...


as i said i could be wrong as many times before...:)

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04 Nov 2012 08:44 - 04 Nov 2012 08:44 #2668 by dado099
Replied by dado099 on topic 2 quick questions.

FDR wrote:
So I was talking about this: model menu -> click "1-ELE" -> scale (one before last).


Scale on 1,2, and 6 channels only affect single servos travel, totally unuseful to this purpose (it's another matter)
Last edit: 04 Nov 2012 08:44 by dado099.

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04 Nov 2012 10:18 #2669 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic 2 quick questions.
Yep, that's why PB talked about the scaling the virtual channels...

At the moment your only way is to define one more last complex page to the virtual channels, make it a multiplying one, and set the function to fixed with some value less then or equal to 100%. However this way you can only reduce the channel's value to set the proportions...

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