- Posts: 162
- Forum
- News, Announcements and Feedback
- Feedback & Questions
- Welcomed feeback, I hope so. An outsider lookin in
Welcomed feeback, I hope so. An outsider lookin in
- ave1
- Topic Author
- Offline
You guys are brilliant (I am not), just an average business guy, somewhat slow comparatively speaking, who runs two business just to keep the bills paid. YOU all very dedicated creating the most powerful RC TX (next to the military's). Yet, we who just almost learned a DX8, sometimes just want to fly (because all of our “time” is at a premium) our models with one TX. Next, we get an intro to the name ER9x and the deviation complex mixer. I want to know the complex mixer. Easy for most here perhaps but, it is not easy (for all of us!) Sure, guilty of not reading. But, reading does not answer all questions.
I'll get there. But I wish I could go to someone with my questions you'll probably deem as .....................unnecessary. I could have used other words above. This is suppose to be fun and I just ask to learn.
Please note: There is no flying field where Ill find you to ask these questions in person so, how else can I get answers? Reading does not always do the trick.
There are lots of smarter people here.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Hexperience
- Offline
- Posts: 588
The main problem is that this forum is really not as active as it seems. I think there are only a few people that are answering questions, and (in my case at least) I don't always have time (important thing time...(see post above)) to respond.
Long story short, post your question... or are you looking for a primer "how to use the mixer" type of article?
I did a bit of how to on using the mixer here:
www.deviationtx.com/forum/how-to/1226-ho...s-on-custom-firmware
It should give you an idea of the logic behind the mixer.
Sorry though... you do have to read it...
There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- FDR
- Offline
While I would really enjoy to visit the States just for that, I can't afford the plane...
But seriously, the mixer is not that complex!
Think about it as a simple calculation: the pages are the operands, the "mux" is the operator (actually I named that in the hungarian translation), and the result will go out to the actual channel.
There are some nuances of course, as the operands can be conditional depending on the switch, and they can be scaled and offset...
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- ave1
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Posts: 162
I just received info from a group member (which I really do and did appreciate) the DR/Expo is nothing even remotely similar to the settings of a DX8, the only real TX I know. (kinda Know, at least).
In that one sentence (his reply) I now know what I was trying to accomplish was all wrong and my seeking 0 for EXPO and 100 for DR's were not the ticket.. I must have spent a day or more trying to tell the difference in my heli and could not. And gain for gyro? I'm still lost with that one (in the complex mixer) for a model who requires PPM and the complex mixer.
Ya know, if I use a BeastX and the simple mixer, I have no issues and understand the articles within. If I understand correctly, it's Okay to use the standard and simple mixer in that case as the controller (beastX) is doing the mixing.
I love this software. I want to know it all. I can and do spend hours trying to understand the conversations within the forum. I want to run and can barely walk, is my problem.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- myxiplx
- Offline
- Posts: 54
Here are the basics:
- You can have any number of mixers, which are shown as 'pages' in the GUI.
- Mixers are processed in order, starting at number 1 and working through to the last.
- Each mixer can optionally be assigned a switch. If the switch is off, that mixer is ignored completely and the program skips to the next one.
- Each mixer can be used to modify the results of earlier mixers, I think of this as the action of the mixer. This is set via the MUX entry and you can do things like replace all previous values, add these results to the previous ones, etc...
- Finally, each mixer is a standard control curve. You can choose any input to act as the source, and specify any type of curve and scale.
So to give an example, I created a mixer for my rudder control to help me practice piros, it lets me flick a switch and use the AUX4 dial on my Devo 10 to start the helicopter spinning at a constant rate. To do this I want to have my rudder managed by the stick, and have the AUX4 dial add to that input if I flick my switch to on.
To do this, I need to create a complex mixer consisting of two parts.
On the first page I set my basic rudder control:
- Switch: none
- MUX: Replace
- Src: RUD
- Curve: Expo
- Scale: 70
And on the second page, I configure it to add AUX4 if I flick a switch:
- Switch: MIX2
- MUX: Add
- Src: !AUX4
- Curve: 1-to-1
- Scale: 50
Feel free to ask if you have any questions, I'm fairly new to Devolution, but work in IT so I'm used to explaining how things work.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- RandMental
- Offline
- Posts: 521
The confusion comes in with the understanding of what some entities, when should they be used and what are their benefits, e.g.
Virtual Channels - benefit? when and how to use, e.g. why not just add more mixer pages?
Cyclic 1/2/3 - purpose, when and how to use, etc.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- myxiplx
- Offline
- Posts: 54
To a programmer or math geek, this kind of stuff is second nature, but for the vast majority of people they've either never used terms like this, or haven't come across them since leaving school, and that may be 30 or 40 years ago.
I used to be quite good at translating geek to plain english, but even though I tried to avoid any complex terms in my reply, when I read it back it's still not quite as clear as I'd like. Ave, if you have any questions, feel free to ask, we'll do our best to explain.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- FDR
- Offline
For example there is the question of throttle and pitch curves:
A beginner won't find them in the advanced gui.
You can say they can be easily implemented by a complex mixer, but of course he won't know how, because to implement those features he had to know how do they work, and he probably doesn't know that...
So first we should explain them how things work, and not about the gui itself, for example (assuming he knows about throttle and pitch in general):
The heli's receiver awaits the throttle and pitch values as two separate channel values.
However we control both values with the throttle stick only, because there is no separate control for the pitch.
But then how can we create two different values, he could ask? Because there are separate curves (called the throttle curves and pitch curves), both depending on the throttle stick as input, but since they have different characteristics (called a curve or the transer function), which make the two output different.
Furthermore, these curves/functions might depend on the flight mode (which is selected with a switch), so you usually can have as many throttle and picth curves as many flight mode you have.
Since the flight mode switch determines which curve is in use, you can switch the function of the throttle stick from controlling the throttle value (or both the throttle and pitch) to control only the pitch while the throttle has a fixed (or at least almost fixed) value.
Looks like my attempt turned into just as hard to understand...
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- sbstnp
- Offline
- Posts: 649
I intended to have something in PDF, so it can be printed and read outside when at the field.
Table of contents was something like this initially:
1. RC notions and terms (generic)
2. Know your transmitter (generic)
3. Protocols and channels (both generic and Deviation specific)
4. Examples (Deviation specific, complex mixer only):
a. Basic 4 channel plane
b. Basic 4 channel heli
c. Complex plane
d. Glider
e. CP heli
If I gather enough interest with this post, I'll go back and finish what I started. Probably post each "chapter" for review, corrections and additions.
Let me know what you think.
Devo 10 + 4in1
FrSky Taranis + TBS Crossfire
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- rbe2012
- Offline
- So much to do, so little time...
- Posts: 1433
But if you need me, I will help. Let me tell you in advance that I am not a native English speaker (yes, you might have heard that before from me...) and when I have read what myxiplx has written I thought: wow, clear to the point; something I will never reach...
sbstnp, if you find the time to go on and perhaps with support of myxiplx I am sure the result will be a huge help for newcomer to rc hobby and to deviation.
Again: I will help if I can (and someone tells me what to do).
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- RandMental
- Offline
- Posts: 521
myxiplx wrote: Actually, I think you'll find confusion happens as soon as you start using any terms such as operator, operand, hungarian notation or arithmetic equation.
You are right, my (engineering) background probably have me jump to an unrealistic conclusion that the mixer concepts/Arithmetic is easy to understand.
sbstnp - very good idea, and I guess we shall all jump in and help, but such information do exist. When I started from zero 18 months ago with a shiny new V450 in front of me, I had no clue what anything in the manual meant, and soon realised that 90% of the posts on RC groups, Helifrek etc, are subject nonsense by people with probably good intentions, but knowing even less than I did. So for me it was back to basics and engineering concepts to figure out swash plates, mechanical setup. etc.
I have since complied an extensive library of free and purchased ebooks that explain these (RC heli) concepts that we can adopt and if copyright allows, adapt for the benefit of Deviation users.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- FDR
- Offline
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- RandMental
- Offline
- Posts: 521
FDR wrote: Yes, but most people don't like to read long texts, because that is boring...
No pain, no gain , but I guess you are right, now a days nobody really reads manuals and then only if Google is down.
What I suggest is to lessen the work and pull from existing information the minimum we require to assist sbstnp to fill his proposed chapters.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- myxiplx
- Offline
- Posts: 54
Also, as you say, no matter how good the documentation, people will always ask questions, and that's not necessarily a bad thing as it helps build the community.
If we had an online wiki, the other advantage is that it would give us something we can easily link to when answering questions for people. As we've found here, sometimes you need a lot of background and it makes answers complicated. A wiki where you can split information into small easily readable chunks could make it much more accessible.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- ave1
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Posts: 162
The statement (s) people will always ask questions" and "some do not like to read" and add, "we like immediate gratification" and, "we don't want to bug or slow you, either".
To set up a beastX, I watch a video. To set the end points of a Castle ESC, auto rotate and other, I watch a video. Consider a Deviation video, maybe more than one. FBL Heli, FB heli, Glider, Plane. Mixers. Some or, all? I want to (need to) watch someone set up a heli, step by step, using the advanced set up. We can pause and immolate what you do. Hear your words and watch over and over again until "the elevator hits the top floor".
It will get us started and we can immediately test and any issues will be easily identified. I believe we could leave you alone for the most part and let you continue writing the program.
I feel in my "gut" deviation's power. Now to connect the dots.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- misterpepper
- Offline
- Posts: 12
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- spartacus
- Offline
- Posts: 18
or lipo i can go on and on.
I decided to buy a quad with Devo 8 wow this is new too me, i would like to come on to a DEVO FORUM AND HAVE SOME NICE FEEDBACK BUT ALL I SEE IS IRATE PEOPLE WHO CANT BE A.S.D WITH NOOBES LIKE ME.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- myxiplx
- Offline
- Posts: 54
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- spartacus
- Offline
- Posts: 18
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- spartacus
- Offline
- Posts: 18
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Forum
- News, Announcements and Feedback
- Feedback & Questions
- Welcomed feeback, I hope so. An outsider lookin in
- Home
- Forum
- News, Announcements and Feedback
- Feedback & Questions
- Welcomed feeback, I hope so. An outsider lookin in