I need a Tx...

Between my son and I, we have four different toy grade quads and I am currently in the process of building the first of two mini-quads.

For the mini-quads I will be needing a Tx and have been looking at a variety of different ones. It has however come to my attention that the Devo range are not only capable of binding to and flying the Walkera Rx, but of course many other manufacturers Rx with the addition of modules and the Deviation firmware.

I'm good with that so far.

What I want to be sure of, before I pull the trigger on ordering a Tx, is which one to get.

From what I have read so far, the Devo 7e is more than capable of supporting what I need it for - mini-quad with ?? Rx, Syma X5C-1, Syma X8C and JJRC Tarantula X6.

And of course, if I choose NOT to use for my existing quads and solely for the minis, then that will work just fine?

So, I guess what I am asking is - will the Devo 7e be sufficient for my needs?

Many thanks! And very glad to join you fine people

I have both the 7e and the 10.

Personally I'd recommend the Devo 10 instead of the 7e. Full size and full range TX. Easier to solder in the modules.

The extra few dollars are well worth it in my opinion.

Zaphod wrote: I have both the 7e and the 10.

Personally I'd recommend the Devo 10 instead of the 7e. Full size and full range TX. Easier to solder in the modules.

The extra few dollars are well worth it in my opinion.

Thanks Zaphod (love the name!)

A quick look on Aliexpress tells me that the Devo 10 is double the price of the 7e. Around $US120-130 vs $US50-60ish.

Should I be looking elsewhere?

That's a good price for a Devo 10. I've never dealt with Aliexpress so can't comment on them as retailers.

To get the 7e to a similar spec as the 10 you need to add switches and modify it to increase its range to match that of the 10. All can be done and not too difficult.

42

Zaphod wrote: To get the 7e to a similar spec as the 10 you need to add switches and modify it to increase its range to match that of the 10. All can be done and not too difficult.

So, assuming that I have no need to mod the Tx, other than possibly to increase range, what advantages does the Devo 10 have?

As you can gather, I'm still leaning towards the 7e, basically because of budgetary constraints.

What is the range of the stock 7e?

Zaphod wrote: 42

NIce touch

I wouldn't recommend an unmodified 7E for flying miniquads. Walkera has purposely restricted the range of the 7E so it won't take sales from their full-range Tx's. The max power of the 10 is 150mW, vs a fixed 7mW from the 7E., which means you'll get less than 25% of the full range. DSM normally uses 100mW and is good out to about a kilometer. That should get 80% of the range with 150mW (but a lot higher power consumption). So that means you get around 250m max range out of the 7E.

You will want to stay quite a bit short of that for safety reasons. Don't want to lose control of your quad and have it fall on the neighbors, or even their roof. If you're flying line-of-site, you want to reduce your range by another 30% or so, because that range is straight line, not over the ground. For me, that means I tend to lose control at about the same point I lose the ability to distinguish orientation. If you're flying FPV and planning on staying close to ground, you can generally ignore both of those issues - but one negates the other.

I just posted a list of advantage of the 10 on the extra inputs thread, which came from people who have outgrown their 7es. So in no particular order:

The new range test feature won't' work in the 7E without the range mod. I'm not sure it will work even if you do the range mod. Anyone know?

The 10 gives you two extra two-way and two extra three-way switches. You can mod the 7E to add the two three-way switches. It gives you two extra analog inputs and the associated 4 trim buttons. The extra inputs thread is working on ways around that, but it's going to use the PPM serial port, so best case won't be usable on sims or in trainer mode. And it will also work on all the other Devo Txs, including the 10.

The hardware in the 10 is better. The cheap plastic sticks that come with the 7E are a particular sore point for me, but those just unscrew and you can put on any sticks that fit a futaba Tx. Even after doing that, the gimbals in the 10 are smoother. To me, 7E feels about half-way between a mediocre RTF Tx and the 10. The better CPU means you get Deviation with all the features enabled, and without without having to muck about updating the protocols after a firmware update - a constant source of irritation and problems. Nuts, the current nightly build of the 7E firmware built with GCC 4.9 instead of 4.8 won't fit on a 7E.

That the 10 is bigger means that there's room to install a multi-module with the extra modules plugged in, instead of having to wire up the extra modules by hand so you can scatter them around inside the Tx. The multi-module is currently the only way to install more than two extra RF modules, so you may or may not want it depending on the RTF models you are using - or planning on using.

You can also buy replacement CYRF modules for the 10, as the 6/8/12 "Telemetry" modules just plug in. They will work in the 7E, but you again have to jury-rig things instead of just plugging them in. Similarly, the universal module (a work in progress) is designed to replace the 6/8/10/12 CYRF module. You can probably get it to work in a 7E the same way you can get a replacement CYRF module to work.

If you like the 7E size, the 6S uses the better hardware, and a color touch screen. Notextra switches or knobs over a fully modded 7E, but it also costs more than the 10.

Final note: I wouldn't recommend Devo Tx's for your miniquad. DSM generally works very well with just the firmware upgrade, and the clone Rx's are very inexpensive. FrySky is getting a lot of traction, as it comes with diversity and builtin telemetry for cheaper than those could be added to a DSM Rx. The only downside is that it requires a CC2500 module, which probably won't help with any of your existing models, so you're back to modding the Tx. Orange just released a new line of DSM Rx's that compete with the FrSky Rx, but we haven't seen any reports on them yet. Unless we get negative reports, I'll be adding one to my next order from HK.

mwm wrote: I wouldn't recommend an unmodified 7E for flying miniquads. Walkera has purposely restricted the range of the 7E so it won't take sales from their full-range Tx's. The max power of the 10 is 150mW, vs a fixed 7mW from the 7E., which means you'll get less than 25% of the full range. DSM normally uses 100mW and is good out to about a kilometer. That should get 80% of the range with 150mW (but a lot higher power consumption). So that means you get around 250m max range out of the 7E.

You will want to stay quite a bit short of that for safety reasons. Don't want to lose control of your quad and have it fall on the neighbors, or even their roof. If you're flying line-of-site, you want to reduce your range by another 30% or so, because that range is straight line, not over the ground. For me, that means I tend to lose control at about the same point I lose the ability to distinguish orientation. If you're flying FPV and planning on staying close to ground, you can generally ignore both of those issues - but one negates the other.

I just posted a list of advantage of the 10 on the extra inputs thread, which came from people who have outgrown their 7es. So in no particular order:

The new range test feature won't' work in the 7E without the range mod. I'm not sure it will work even if you do the range mod. Anyone know?

The 10 gives you two extra two-way and two extra three-way switches. You can mod the 7E to add the two three-way switches. It gives you two extra analog inputs and the associated 4 trim buttons. The extra inputs thread is working on ways around that, but it's going to use the PPM serial port, so best case won't be usable on sims or in trainer mode. And it will also work on all the other Devo Txs, including the 10.

The hardware in the 10 is better. The cheap plastic sticks that come with the 7E are a particular sore point for me, but those just unscrew and you can put on any sticks that fit a futaba Tx. Even after doing that, the gimbals in the 10 are smoother. To me, 7E feels about half-way between a mediocre RTF Tx and the 10. The better CPU means you get Deviation with all the features enabled, and without without having to muck about updating the protocols after a firmware update - a constant source of irritation and problems. Nuts, the current nightly build of the 7E firmware built with GCC 4.9 instead of 4.8 won't fit on a 7E.

That the 10 is bigger means that there's room to install a multi-module with the extra modules plugged in, instead of having to wire up the extra modules by hand so you can scatter them around inside the Tx. The multi-module is currently the only way to install more than two extra RF modules, so you may or may not want it depending on the RTF models you are using - or planning on using.

You can also buy replacement CYRF modules for the 10, as the 6/8/12 "Telemetry" modules just plug in. They will work in the 7E, but you again have to jury-rig things instead of just plugging them in. Similarly, the universal module (a work in progress) is designed to replace the 6/8/10/12 CYRF module. You can probably get it to work in a 7E the same way you can get a replacement CYRF module to work.

If you like the 7E size, the 6S uses the better hardware, and a color touch screen. Notextra switches or knobs over a fully modded 7E, but it also costs more than the 10.

Final note: I wouldn't recommend Devo Tx's for your miniquad. DSM generally works very well with just the firmware upgrade, and the clone Rx's are very inexpensive. FrySky is getting a lot of traction, as it comes with diversity and builtin telemetry for cheaper than those could be added to a DSM Rx. The only downside is that it requires a CC2500 module, which probably won't help with any of your existing models, so you're back to modding the Tx. Orange just released a new line of DSM Rx's that compete with the FrSky Rx, but we haven't seen any reports on them yet. Unless we get negative reports, I'll be adding one to my next order from HK.

Wow! Thanks for the in-depth answer - most appreciated

So, what I'm reading is that using a 7e for mini-quads isn't such a great idea. If I want to control my existing quads, I am better to go with the 10.

I'm not going to spend the money on a 10, I think I'll perhaps revert back to my original plan of getting maybe a FlySky FS-T6 solely for the mini-quad and use the existing Txs for the others...

Thanks again!

DoubleQuad wrote: So, what I'm reading is that using a 7e for mini-quads isn't such a great idea. If I want to control my existing quads, I am better to go with the 10.

You left off the key word: "unmoddified". The 7E with the diode range mod should be fine. You'll probably have to mod things for your toy grade quads anyway.

One last thing: the the Tx is the only thing you actually touch while you're flying your aircraft. That's not the place to try and save money. There's a reason there's a market for Tx's costing four figures. One amazing thing about deviation is that it gets you abilities from those Tx's for a fraction of the price.

mwm wrote:

DoubleQuad wrote: So, what I'm reading is that using a 7e for mini-quads isn't such a great idea. If I want to control my existing quads, I am better to go with the 10.

You left off the key word: "unmoddified". The 7E with the diode range mod should be fine. You'll probably have to mod things for your toy grade quads anyway.

One last thing: the the Tx is the only thing you actually touch while you're flying your aircraft. That's not the place to try and save money. There's a reason there's a market for Tx's costing four figures. One amazing thing about deviation is that it gets you abilities from those Tx's for a fraction of the price.

Arrrgh. Public forums are an amazing place to demonstrate one's complete lack of understanding! <-- read as ignorance

Awesome, thanks for your input, I really do appreciate it. I'm maybe a month away from needing the Tx, so will give it some thought.

I hear what you are saying about the Tx being the only thing one touches while flying...

So, after going full circle with this I find myself back here again.
Still keen on the 7e but not totally excluding the 10.
My question this time if regarding receivers. Specifically, to use a Devo with a mini quad, assuming no other modules have been installed, what is a suitable receive to use?

With no other modules installed, your protocol choices are the Walkera protocols, DSMx, and Nine Eagles J6Pro.

J6Pro Rx's are are really hard to find. The Walkera Rx's are a considered large & overpriced.

DSM Rx's you an buy either the ones licensed from Spektrum, which again get you large and overpriced, but they have good support from HH. On the other hand, you can get clones from OrangeRx and LemonRx at very reasonable prices. Those are very popular. I've used both brands.

These days, I'd go with one of the new ?20X OrangeRx receivers with CPPM or SBUS, as they have built in telemetry. The Rx battery voltage doesn't work, but that won't matter on a miniquad, as you won't be using an Rx battery. They will get you flight battery voltage (good to have) and signal (ditto) telemetry. The CPPM (or SBUS, depending on which your miniquad flight control board supports) will simplify the build. I don't use them now because of the Rx battery issue, but I've got a build that will need >8 channels, so will be getting one for that if we don't get more channels on the other options before I get it done.

There are some issues with using a clone. But you're using a clone Tx, so these aren't new, just a little more likely to crop up because the clones tend to be tested against Spektrum gear and not each other.

Wow, thanks for the reply

Again, very useful and informative

mwm wrote: With no other modules installed, your protocol choices are the Walkera protocols, DSMx, and Nine Eagles J6Pro.
.

Awesome

So, to clarify, unmodded, out-of-the-box, they support those protocols?

So, if I chose an OrangeTx reciever with DSMx, it would bind and work just fine?

Sorry for my noob-ness!

Yes, see homepage intro section.

DEVO is 3 channel. DSM2 is 2 channel.
DSMx is muti channel FHSS.
Walkera also seem to require you to use external telemetry modules??!?? No benefit there.

It is really not that hard to decide on...

What is a mini quad btw? Any product name / link?
Is that a 250 and above quad where you can put your own flight controller and RX onto?


I like the idea about Spektrum AR9020 and Spektrum SRXL. Good for (2) heli FBL systems.


Already far too many threads about OrangeRX not working with DX10T, DX6, lost aircrafts and stuff.
Also true for high framelosses ground test with one new Orange telemetry DSMx receiver on a DX18 (not mine).
I personally probably would not fly something with them which might break, is cost intensive...


So I am really wondering how “mini“ your quads are actually?!

Carbon does not really improve the signal stuff too.
You need to use good longer antennas and have them perfect mounted (with no antenna fading).

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Yes, see homepage intro section.

Will do thanks

Thomas.Heiss wrote:
What is a mini quad btw? Any product name / link?
Is that a 250 and above quad where you can put your own flight controller and RX onto?

So, it is a fibreglass ZMR250 frame. NAZE32 flight controller.

Thomas.Heiss wrote:
I like the idea about Spektrum AR9020 and Spektrum SRXL. Good for (2) heli FBL systems.


Already far too many threads about OrangeRX not working with DX10T, DX6, lost aircrafts and stuff.
Also true for high framelosses ground test with one new Orange telemetry DSMx receiver on a DX18 (not mine).
I personally probably would not fly something with them which might break, is cost intensive...

...

Carbon does not really improve the signal stuff too.
You need to use good longer antennas and have them perfect mounted (with no antenna fading).

So, from your post I gather that you recommend the Spektrum gear?

Thanks

Yes - I am using genuine Spektrum receivers + 100mw setting for now.

I do really like the Devo10 (DX8 replacement).
Liked the DX8 as well as (this airware is “a bit“ limited and not comparable with new airware firmwares). Silver alu chassis was very nice. Rubber side and backside mountings were better.
Display (rows) of Devo could be a bit bigger.
Too less text/rows on a mixer page. You have to scroll endlessly back and forth


But I do not like the Devo battery 50mah charger port, was ~200mah on DX8.
My battery tray also opens sometimes with my 2300mah nimh.
I do have to TAPE it therefore all the time. Was perfect / safe with DX8.
For normal charging (200mah to 600mah) I have to remove the nimh pack
I am using 3s 1300mah outside lipo for the charge port (parallel).
At least that works. Thanks to walkera-Fans.de for the tip.


I might be using Frsky / CC2500 at a later time because of telemetry.
Well, I do not really like drilling holes for a 2nd antenna.
Loss of CE / KE because of modification or a FCC label might be another issue. Another story...

Not hopping systems (Non FHSS) are not allowed in EU/DE starting 01/01/2015 for new TX according to ETSI 1.8.1 anyways.
Spektrum stopped DSM2 support for their HF modules. I really wonder if they had DSM2 running on 10mw or 100mw (old ETSI) power settings.
And I would not like to run my Devo10 only on 10mw setting.
I have no idea what category the DEVO protocol falls into. Probably can be used with 10mw (DE). Might be worth another thread and more technical details...

DSM2 problems: www.rcmodelreviews.com/dsm2flaw.shtml
DSMx: 1khz x 100mw = 100mw max.
Wasn`t DSM2 10mhz width? 10 x 10=100mw??? Not sure right now as of writing this. I may confuse with Devo protocol DSSS width....


So what is Devo 10 + DeviationTX + DSMx 100/150mw?
For ME better than 2CH DSM2 and 3CH Devo protocols and unknown >10mw settings / side effects / regulations. Maybe at least a bit better newer ETSI compatible in Germany??!?


No - I do not recommend a new DX6, DX7 or DX9 when you compare them to a Walkera Devo 10 with DeviationTX (price, features, channels). And DX6i was a different thing compared to DX8...
Obviously you can not compare a Devo 10 to a DX18 (haptic, silver, display, etc).
Not sure how a Devo 10 competes against a Grauper MX20 (Hott telemetry, 3rd party telemetry sensors).


So Devo 10 is MY personal Taranis / OpenTX cheap alternative (which has proper CE/KE for EU/DE) and DX8 replacement for now.


As Mike told you: You want to hold the TX in your hand and like the haptic / material.
So as the Devo 7E is way smaller you might want to check that.

You definitly need a hardcase bag for a DX8 / Devo 10 for its antenna protection anyway! DX8 broke so many times without it.


What Devo transmitters are continued to be offically supported by Walkera btw?

My 2cents

Thomas

Thomas.Heiss wrote: DSM2 problems: www.rcmodelreviews.com/dsm2flaw.shtml
DSMx: 1khz x 100mw = 100mw max.

But here's the critical part of that for those who don't feel like reading it carefully:

in 99.9% of real-world situations, this won't be a problem and I should emphasize that the sky is NOT falling for JR/Spektrum users.

Which agrees with what Spektrum said about DSM2 when they came out with DSMX: there won't be a problem that switching to DSMX will solve for you unless you're flying at a huge event with hundreds of users.

Personally, I think the issues from using a non-licensed protocol implementation (like Deviation) outweigh this by a large margin. Since DSMX and DSM2 are different enough that we have different protocol selections, if one works and the other has problems using DeviationTx, just use the one that works and don't worry about it.

These days, I wouldn't buy a DSM2-only Rx unless something really odd were going on. But I'm not going to throw out my DSM2-only Rx's, either - and have no qualms about using them on my US$1K aerial platform build. Thomas is in the EU, where they're apparently making protocols that don't do FHSS properly illegal, which includes DSM2, so his take on it is a bit different.

Wow, there's a ton of info there guys

Not sure what to make of all that...

If I read it correctly, DSM2 / DSMx will be quite sufficient for my needs. I can use a Devo 7e as the Tx, out of the box.

For a Rx, any DSM2 / DSMx capable Rx should work. For example, an OrangeR615x would be OK?

Does that sound fair?

So, I have gone with the Devo 7e and an OrangeRx R615X Rx.

Thanks all for your help

Just in case you haven't completed your order yet:

I just stumbled upon your last replies and noticed that you'll be using a Naze32 FC.

In this case, I recommend you get a satellite Rx such as the OrangeRx R110x instead:
www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__4663...llite_Receiver_.html
This will give you more channels with less weight and space.