Devo 10 & DSMX RX

Hello gentlemen, although the first thing i did when i got my devo 10 one year ago, the first i did was to flash deviationtx firmware, to be honest i never did any setup except copy a profile from model config for naza fc. Time passed and i have order many stuff for my rig. The rig is the following:

Devo 10& 1002rx
Tarot 680 pro (hexa)
Naza lite with gps, upgraded to naza v2
sunnysky x4108s motors
hobbywing xrotor 40a escs flashed with blheli latest firmware
Tarot 1355 cf props
Custom 6s battery 12.500 100a continues current

So far so good, as i said i just paste a model config 1 year ago on latest stable 4.01 firmware that it have preconfigured the basic stuff (drone flying, flying mode switch and finally failsafe)

1 week ago i order many stuff for my bird that almost all of these needs a channel or more to work. I have order:
3 axis gimbal with support to control all 3axis via rx
tarot retractable landing gear (controlled from a 2 switch tx channel)
naza s-iosd that needs a channel too to change the info on screen
led module that can change colours or blinking, yeah yeah again via rx too.

My propably silly questions now.
1.As i understand devo 10 even with deviation tx firmware support up to 10 channels right?
2.As i understand if i got a dsmx receiver like orangerx/frsky i have much more channels available since sbus protocol costs me less channel for naza operation?
3. Which one (frsky,orangerx module) can give me most available channels my devo can handle?
4. Can you suggest a specific model of orangerx/frsky to get so the job can be done? I would love a telemetry capable module that supports devo 10.

Thanks in advance and forgive my bad English.

Every transmitter you have deviation installed on, has 12 channels. So your deviated Devo10 also gives 12 channels.
You need a rx that is capable of 12 channels. It does not matter witch protocol: Devo, DSM2/X, Frsky, etc. As long as the rx can handle 12 channels you can get 12 channels. No more.

Tom

WRONG firmware release! Too old.
Does not look to be "stable" in all circumstances: www.deviationtx.com/forum/3-feedback-que...-nightly-build#46790

Q:
1) 12 channels
2) one cable benefit. You do not need to buy a 8-12ch receiver. So you get more than only 6CH.
3) I pass on OrangeRX. My best results has always been with genuine Spektrum receivers.
You might want to search for e.g AR7700, AR9020 SRXL, Serial SAT receiver SPM4648 & Co. There are 2-3 threads of some S-Bus or PPM / SRXL suggestions.
4) Not me, sorry. Well, there are not that many digital bus receivers on the Orange homepage listed
Probably FrSky receivers with it's included (full-range) telemetry are the better option to go with CC2500 HF module once the protocol development including telemetry enhancements has been improved / finished.

Thomas

Thomas.Heiss wrote: WRONG firmware release! Too old.
Does not look to be "stable" in all circumstances: www.deviationtx.com/forum/3-feedback-que...-nightly-build#46790
hmm, i was pretty sure since the numbers are the same there is no difference between stable and nightly builds!
Q:
1) 12 channels
2) one cable benefit. You do not need to buy a 8-12ch receiver. So you get more than only 6CH.
You mean that the only benefit is that i have to use just a single cable over traditional ppm wiring? I dont understand the second part. How its supposed i ll benefit from 12 channels if i dont need to buy a 12 channel receiver?
3) I pass on OrangeRX. My best results has always been with genuine Spektrum receivers.
You might want to search for e.g AR7700, AR9020 SRXL, Serial SAT receiver SPM4648 & Co. There are 2-3 threads of some S-Bus or PPM / SRXL suggestions.
I dont have any experience from orangerx too. I was reading some posts from rcgroups and most people said that giving great results. I will give a look on Spektum receivers too.
4) Not me, sorry. Well, there are not that many digital bus receivers on the Orange homepage listed
Probably FrSky receivers with it's included (full-range) telemetry are the better option to go with CC2500 HF module once the protocol development including telemetry enhancements has been improved / finished.
You mean that frsky protocol is still not supported from my devo and that i ll need an extra module soldered in my tx right? If so then i ll pass the frsky receivers. I prefer any out of the box solution.
Thomas

***Thanks both of you guys for fast response!

Very different firmwares.
(Final) Release V4.0.1 is from tag / branch 4.0 about 2014-01-03 to 2014-02-02.
Latest nightly-build commit is from 2016, so nightly-build is two years ahead in development.

Channel magic
Most serial bus receivers do not have 8-12ch output servo ports but only 1 and some more servo ports (e.g 4).
But over the one digital bus they transmit many channels.


CC2500 for FrSky protocols. Correct.

There are multiple FrSky series. Latest is FrSkyX for X... series instead of older D receivers.
There are multiple FrSky protocols like EU LBT...
Please see the 2-3 updated FrSky threads for more details and current state.
Currently there are FrSky test builds e.g for FrskyX, that is ongoing development and probably newer than latest offical nightly build
repository.
I don't follow these threads at the moment, so others could tell you more..

Thanks again my friend!

Channels are really, really odd things in RC. They are unrelated to the traditional notion of a "channel" from radio technology - at least for modern FHSS radios. For RC, they are a count of how may devices you can control on the remote end. Traditionally, an "N-channel" receiver has N PWM outputs to control N servos/ECSs/whatever, and they are still sold that way. But a reieiver with PPM/SBUS/SRXL/whatever output, the number of things you can control isn't limited by the number of connections on the receiver, as it sends all the data it gets out the single connection. Given a flight controller that accepts those signals, you need one connection for all four flight controls and multiple other controls. Some of them can be set up to forward channels out via PWM.

You see the same thing on the transmitter end. How many channels you can send is a firmware limit - trivially changed at build time - typically limited by the number of physical controls on the transmitter limiting how many different channels you can reasonably control. I've designed protocols with "hundreds" of channels, but haven't ever implemented one because I can't figure out how to control them with a traditional transmitter.

If you want more than 8 channels, for now you'll need to stay with the DSM protocols on deviation. As TH notes, the newer FrSky X-series receivers that have many channels use a protocol that's not currently supported. The older D-series receivers are supported, but only have 8 channels. The non-EU version of the newer protocol is under development, but not ready yet. Seems close, though. If really wanted to use that and can live with 8 channels for a while, the non-EU transmitters can also use the older D protocol and work fine with 8 channels (but no telemetry), so you could start with one now and switch to X and more channels later.

FWIW, both DSMX and FrSky X have up to 16 channels. In theory, it's simple to change deviationTx to support that, but nobody has asked for it for DSM. The FrSky developers will probably try it after they get things working properly with 12 channels.

Your single-wire protocol choices are PPM (aka CPPM or PPMSUM), S.Bus, SRXL and the Spektrum satellite protocol. You'll want to avoid PPM for that many channels. It has timing issues even with as few as 8 channels, and they'll only get worse as you add more. SRXL doesn't have very wide FC support yet. The satellite protocol isn't available on many stand-alone Rx's yet, but is ok if you can live with only a satellite Rx. Which leaves S.Bus.

Personally, I'd go with the OrangeRx S.Bus Rx's. For a lot of what I do, they're a win compared to the spectrum Rx's because they have built-in telemetry and diversity. However, the telemetry implementation has some oddities (like park flyer range limits and no Rx voltage) on some of them, so check that carefully. And the reported range with the OrangeRx's isn't' quite as good as it is with Spektrum Rx's. Those things don't bother me, but they might you.

mwm wrote: Channels are really, really odd things in RC. They are unrelated to the traditional notion of a "channel" from radio technology - at least for modern FHSS radios. For RC, they are a count of how may devices you can control on the remote end. Traditionally, an "N-channel" receiver has N PWM outputs to control N servos/ECSs/whatever, and they are still sold that way. But a reieiver with PPM/SBUS/SRXL/whatever output, the number of things you can control isn't limited by the number of connections on the receiver, as it sends all the data it gets out the single connection. Given a flight controller that accepts those signals, you need one connection for all four flight controls and multiple other controls. Some of them can be set up to forward channels out via PWM.

You see the same thing on the transmitter end. How many channels you can send is a firmware limit - trivially changed at build time - typically limited by the number of physical controls on the transmitter limiting how many different channels you can reasonably control. I've designed protocols with "hundreds" of channels, but haven't ever implemented one because I can't figure out how to control them with a traditional transmitter.

If you want more than 8 channels, for now you'll need to stay with the DSM protocols on deviation. As TH notes, the newer FrSky X-series receivers that have many channels use a protocol that's not currently supported. The older D-series receivers are supported, but only have 8 channels. The non-EU version of the newer protocol is under development, but not ready yet. Seems close, though. If really wanted to use that and can live with 8 channels for a while, the non-EU transmitters can also use the older D protocol and work fine with 8 channels (but no telemetry), so you could start with one now and switch to X and more channels later.

FWIW, both DSMX and FrSky X have up to 16 channels. In theory, it's simple to change deviationTx to support that, but nobody has asked for it for DSM. The FrSky developers will probably try it after they get things working properly with 12 channels.

Your single-wire protocol choices are PPM (aka CPPM or PPMSUM), S.Bus, SRXL and the Spektrum satellite protocol. You'll want to avoid PPM for that many channels. It has timing issues even with as few as 8 channels, and they'll only get worse as you add more. SRXL doesn't have very wide FC support yet. The satellite protocol isn't available on many stand-alone Rx's yet, but is ok if you can live with only a satellite Rx. Which leaves S.Bus.

Personally, I'd go with the OrangeRx S.Bus Rx's. For a lot of what I do, they're a win compared to the spectrum Rx's because they have built-in telemetry and diversity. However, the telemetry implementation has some oddities (like park flyer range limits and no Rx voltage) on some of them, so check that carefully. And the reported range with the OrangeRx's isn't' quite as good as it is with Spektrum Rx's. Those things don't bother me, but they might you.

Hmm great post my friend. Well after some searching about frsky protocol with cp2500 module i found some info that its a no go for me. I read about 200m max range while i have fpv videos on stock setup with default rx around 2km+. So i am looking for a dsmx rx with full support of 12 channels and a good range too. I read on rcgroups that orangerx made v2 version rx. Which one is the best rx i can get with decent range and cover all devo channels? A link from hobbyking would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance my friend.

Paraskevopoulos wrote: I read about 200m max range while i have fpv videos on stock setup with default rx around 2km+.

I do not know were you read that, but it is simply not true.
As a matter of fackt, i my experience the frsky protocol has the best range of all the protocols available.
At least 1.5 Km, probably more.

TomPeer wrote:

Paraskevopoulos wrote: I read about 200m max range while i have fpv videos on stock setup with default rx around 2km+.

I do not know were you read that, but it is simply not true.
As a matter of fackt, i my experience the frsky protocol has the best range of all the protocols available.
At least 1.5 Km, probably more.

You propably missunderstand me, i dont speak about a stock taranis. I know it have great range. The modded devo's with cc2500 module have a really bad range. Many people mentioned it already that the max range is+-200m max. Its not a dealbreaker for them since most people use it for fpv racing. For me its a no go since i use to fly really far away. Telemetry is something that i really love to have but i can live without it since i have already a s-osd for naza. So i am listening suggestion about a dsmx rx that covers all 12 channels of my devo 10 with great range as first priority and if it includes a telemetry wouldnt be bad.

Serious, only 200m?
Please, throw in some links.
Otherwise I agree with TomPeer.

aMax wrote: Serious, only 200m?
Please, throw in some links.
Otherwise I agree with TomPeer.

Yep! Give me a moment till i am back home.

Here you are. Its a devo7 though its unlocked at 150mw transmit power www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2462580

I was not speaking about the taranis.
I Use frsky with my devo transmitters, with the C2500 module. Like i said: at least 1.5 Km.

TomPeer wrote: I was not speaking about the taranis.
I Use frsky with my devo transmitters, with the C2500 module. Like i said: at least 1.5 Km.

Wow, have you any presentation about the mod? You used the stock antenna? If i could use the x8r with full telemetry support i really wont care about anything else.

I use this module from banggood: www.banggood.com/CC2500-PA-LNA-Romote-Wi...F24L01-p-922595.html
With an antenna lioke this one: www.banggood.com/Wholesale-FrSky-2_4G-V8...Antenna-p-68714.html
using a pigtail like this: www.banggood.com/10cm-PCI-UFL-IPX-to-RPS...-Cable-p-924933.html
You can find the installation information in the main menu under: Wiki.

I also use the x8r, x6r and x4r receivers. Hexfet is working on the protocol for these transmitters. It is still in testing fase, but he is quite far with it already.

TomPeer wrote: I use this module from banggood: www.banggood.com/CC2500-PA-LNA-Romote-Wi...F24L01-p-922595.html
With an antenna lioke this one: www.banggood.com/Wholesale-FrSky-2_4G-V8...Antenna-p-68714.html
using a pigtail like this: www.banggood.com/10cm-PCI-UFL-IPX-to-RPS...-Cable-p-924933.html
You can find the installation information in the main menu under: Wiki.

I also use the x8r, x6r and x4r receivers. Hexfet is working on the protocol for these transmitters. It is still in testing fase, but he is quite far with it already.

Hmm i cant use the stock antenna right?

yes you could, but that means you have to disconnect it from the cyrf module, that is not wise, unles you connect an other antenna like the one i use for the cc2500 module to the stock cyrf module. You could leave the antenna even on the inside of the transmitter, so you see only one antenna an the out side. It might effect the range of the cyrf module, not sure.
If you do not connect an antenna to the cyrf module, then the cyrf module will most likely be destroyed when you turn the radio on with a protocol, using this module.

Paraskevopoulos wrote:

aMax wrote: Serious, only 200m?
Please, throw in some links.
Otherwise I agree with TomPeer.

Yep! Give me a moment till i am back home.

Here you are. Its a devo7 though its unlocked at 150mw transmit power www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2462580

Well, looked at the wiring pic..
If I had no clue, I would google for all reasonable informations on this first and at any doubt, I would post a question.
Wiring mixed up and an old software version, not really worth to talk about.

Paraskevopoulos wrote:

TomPeer wrote: I was not speaking about the taranis.
I Use frsky with my devo transmitters, with the C2500 module. Like i said: at least 1.5 Km.

Wow, have you any presentation about the mod? You used the stock antenna? If i could use the x8r with full telemetry support i really wont care about anything else.

This is what you (can) expect for the range....(7e & cc2500)...........


Thanks Arakon...

Here you are. Its a devo7 though its unlocked at 150mw transmit power www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2462580

If you read that thread carefully, you'll note that the author failed to connect the PA/LNA enable pins on the CC2500 properly because he misread the instructions. I have to admit that I knew what to look for because I made the exact same misread, did the exact same thing, and had the exact same problem. I asked for help here, the problem was pointed out, I fixed it, and my range issues went away. I also tried to clarify the instructions. The author doesn't say his problem was cleared up - but he also doesn't say he tried the fix, and he was happy with the range he was getting.

The comments about deviationTx not being FrSky code are true, but also true for pretty much all the protocols, including DSM and the Walkera protocols the transmitter came with. If that really bothers you, the solution that stays with DeviationTx is to build your own Rx running the deviationTx FrSky code, as described here: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27788570&postcount=2 . Personally, I don't let it bother me - but I always range test everything after any mods or repairs...