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Developing a universal module
- PhracturedBlue
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I want to design a universal module that can be used to run all protocols that Deviation can support. I'd like it to be low-cost and a drop-in replacement for the CYRF module on a Devo radio.
The goal would be to design a board tht can incorporate multiple transceiver chips with a single power-amplifier and single antenna. And to keep the overall production cost as low as possible.
The CYRF module includes the following pins:
5.5V supply
GND
SCK
MISO
MOSI
CSn
Reset
If we also use the Debug port, there are 2 additional IO lines available as well an a 3.3V supply.
Here's my thoughts on a parts list (prices are estimated at low quantities):
CC2500 QFN-20 package ~$3.35
CYRF6936 QFN-40 package ~$3.20
nrf24L01 QFN-20 package (no US supplier)
A7105 QFN-20 package $2.40
8:1 Switch for GPIO (something like a MAX4581) ~$2.00
3.3V converter (various options) ~$2.00
RF Switch. Something like a BGSF18DM20 looks pretty good, but I'm not sure about the impedence matching and using it as the input to the PA/LNA. ~$1.50 There seem to be pother options at the SP4T and SP6T levels as well
Power Amp ~20dBm. Several options around ~$1.00
A bunch of R/C/L components for impedance matching and biasing
Possible need for a small uC to to control the switches (AVR/PIC) ~$2.00
Virtually all of the above parts are SMT and cannot be reasonably hand soldered without special equpment. So this is not a 'kit' project.
I think I'd develop the above as a module that can directly replace the Devo module.
In order to make this module more attractive, it would be valuable to develop a PPM->SPI module around an STM32 MCU. This would host the Deviation protocol stack as well as some interface to control the protocol (perhaps bluetooth). Together with the above it could be used with any transmitter to provide all protocols. That is yet another project on top of the 1st.
I'll need to look at software options for development. While I ue a bunch of EDA tools at work, they are all proprietary and not designed for board-level development. I only do this kind of thing every couple years so I don't keep up with the current software much. In the past I used Eagle which works fine for small boards, but has the most atrocious user interface. If anyone knows what state-of-the-art in freely available circuit design and board layout software is I'd be interested.
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- sbstnp
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www.zenitpcb.com/
sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/tinycad/i....php?title=Main_Page
www.freepcb.com/
I have no idea if they are suited for the task or complete/good they are.
Devo 10 + 4in1
FrSky Taranis + TBS Crossfire
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- Wene001
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- PhracturedBlue
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- nerwin
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I know I would be willing, as I love the work done so far (I have been a long time lurker, and have owned a 8s, and now a 12s only because of the existence of this firmware).
PB, I know your anti dontation, but this is more like spending others money to achieve the desired goal.
Then you wouldnt have to bother learning any layout software, just defining the standards/requirements, and finding a offshore design house to create. I know there are a few native chinese speaking folks who could likely assist in finding a manufacturer/designer offshore.
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- PhracturedBlue
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So the best case is probably that I develop a BOM and a board design and make that freely available. That would leave it up to some entrepreneur to actually manufacture and sell the boards (as well as reap any profit). Becasue of the nature of the design, it is unlikely that this can be a DIY type of thing.
The alternative is to design a board that does not contain any RF, but instead just has solder pads for all known RF modules of interest. This board could be manufactured to use only through-hole components and could easily be sold as a DIY kit. The downside is that you will have a bunch of antennas to deal with, and overall a lot more expense (since modules tend to cost $10 to $15 each). The overall platform would likely be a lot larger as well.
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- nerwin
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Looks like he could assist from layout right through to production.
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- blackmoon
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You could contact th9xer (th9xeratgmail.com) from the openRCforums (ex-er9x forum), he has already developed a ppm2spi converter that runs your protocol stack on AVR, currently Flysky and Hubsan.
openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5...f720d99d90741b5204f2
code.google.com/p/rc-ppm-2-spi/
He also uses Kicad.
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- RoGuE_StreaK
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While I like the idea of the multi-module board, I think there would be real issues if anyone wanted to fly with it somewhere that they are strict on compliance; that said, are any of these separate modules certified for use? I know some clubs won't let you fly with non-tick equipment, but I guess running deviation probably already makes it non-tick anyway?
Not that it matters to me, as I don't fly in any of those places.
RE: the module-connecting board, would need to get good close shots of each of the devo TX boards; I know the 7E definitely doesn't have the header that rbe2012 mentioned in the skyartec thread, but also haven't looked to see if the pads that are there match those of the header.
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- PhracturedBlue
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- PhracturedBlue
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The only way to make this compliant would be FCC testing, and even then that probably is not be since we could easily tromp on other Tx signal even if the power output is compliant.
All of the boards I have use either 0.1" headers or the 2mm headers and I have the pinouts for several of them. so designing a 'connecting board' would be pretty straight forward
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- PhracturedBlue
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- andri65
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I think also that is possible to install on Devo 12/12s a card reader, maybe need a firmware update!?!
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- RoGuE_StreaK
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Just to clarify, I assume you mean solder stencil? (solder mask is supplied on the board, which does help the soldering process)PhracturedBlue wrote: Rogue, what do you do as far as solder masks go for your boards. do you make them yorself, order them, or just apply by hand?
Currently checking a few different options, I'd previously made my own from etched brass but the toner transfer method is causing some issues at the moment; toner has apparently changed in the cheapie laser printers, not really usable for this anymore, have just printed some stuff using work's Xerox beast and hope to test it over the weekend; apparently has lower fuse temps.
I'm contacting a few cheap laser-cut stencil companies, but not having too much luck getting replies. There are a few in the $30ish range for mylar, even a Chinese one on ebay doing laser-cut stainless steel for about that price. As these are unproven prototypes, I'm trying to do my testing on the cheap until I know the board actually does what it's supposed to.
There are a few cheap ones in the US, but they charge ridiculous international shipping.
I won't be doing hand-application as there are a couple of really fine pitch no-lead components there, and I want to minimise my chances of getting bridging under those suckers.
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- kille
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This is a very cool project! I also use Eagle, so I can help you by layouting or so on!
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- kille
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- RoGuE_StreaK
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Close, XM-L (or XM-L2). Just added it for the hell of it, experimenting to see if a via-riddled 0.6mm FR4 with max-copper planes works OK for heat transfer. But ideally going for direct to copper soldering. No existing MCPCB suits my purposes, so seeing what my options are for DIY.kille wrote: Rogue is the round PCB a board for a Cree MTG?
Seeed will do weird shapes like this, including internal shape milling.
Personally, after some prototype DIY runs to check everything works properly, I say get one of the small pro companies to do the population, unless you are only making a couple a week.
PS. I don't want to give the impression that I'm a professional at this, it's very much a side hobby, just with a fair whack of googling behind it.
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- vlad_vy
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- PhracturedBlue
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- SadSack
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estore.rfmd.com/RFMD_Onlinestore/Product..._ML2724DH.aspx?DC=25
older datasheet
www.rfmd.com/CS/Documents/ML2724_ML2724S...roductSPACEBrief.pdf
Looks as if company had a change of name.
And shop but unsure if it's correct no info.
www.aliexpress.com/item/ML2724DH-FOR-Mic...P-32P/532133704.html
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