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Developing a universal module
- jo-loom
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Having browsed through the complete project thread, the sources and the doc I believe to have gained some basic understanding.
In the past I did already modify a couple of transmitters using hardwired RF modules including microcontroller to convert PPM into the needed SPI protocol.
Now I got two remaining questions:
1) What is the reason to go for a ATTiny24 microcontroller solution for chip select signal generation instead of just using a simple binary decoder for the 2 given port pins in the transmitter? With these 2 pins decoding '01', '10' and '00' plus the CS line from the original DEVO RF module it should have been possible to address the 4 target RF modules.
2) I am still wondring whether it is possible to place 4 RF antenna wires in the given antenna plastic tube. 3 out of 4 should always be passive - I would not expect a negative capacitive coupling, but maybe I am wrong. I do agree that any active RF switch solution will not be achievable with acceptable effort. But what is speaking against the described installation? Or is an antenna wire routing along the inner transmitter top case wall suffcient?
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- PhracturedBlue
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1) you can only control the CS pin. If you want to control CE or Reset or any other pin, you are out of luck.
2) you need 3 wires, which means you either need to use the Cyrf 'Reset' wire, or you need to hold the CYRF chip in REset while using the CSn wire. Neither is ideal.
I also considered using a 2:4 decoder which would do the same with only 2 wires, but only supports 3 modules ('00' needs to be used to shut all modules off), or uses a 3rd disable signal (in which case the analog mux is superior)
The AVR actually has fewer pins than the other options, only needs 1 extra wire for control (after programming), and provides 7 controllable pins, allowing the use of CE and Reset, or PA/LNA enables as needed.
I've seen a lot of different proposals, but have not yet seen one which requires a smaller package, fewer parts, is significantly less expensive, or provides any significant advantage over the current design.
The only significant drawback to the current approach is that it requires programming. I negate that by using the Tx itself for programming so that no additional hardware is needed. A second potential issue is that it limits maximum transfer rate due to how fast the AVR can react to a CSn change, but that isn't an issue in practice.
There is no reason you can't get 4 wires into a hollow antenna. Of course, some of the Devo radios use a screw-on antenna instead, and for those, you are out of luck.
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- FDR
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I would debate on this, since even a passive conductive wire has strong effect on any antenna system. Just think about the yagi antenna which is one dipole and a few passive reflectors, and you've got a highly modified radiation pattern...PhracturedBlue wrote: There is no reason you can't get 4 wires into a hollow antenna. Of course, some of the Devo radios use a screw-on antenna instead, and for those, you are out of luck.
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- PhracturedBlue
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If you can (and I can reproduce it), I'll donate a fully built universal module
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- jo-loom
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Are both needed SW features (chip select / reset signal support and ATTiny flash programming) already being part of the deviation software package 4.0.1 - or will they be integrated in whatever future release?
Will this release be compatible to both hardware variants with a PCB hosting up to 4 modules plus ATTiny or alternatively directly wiring up to 2 modules to the available TX controller port pins?
Thanks once more for all your help!
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- Birdman
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PhracturedBlue wrote: Assuming the boards I get from china are good enough, I will likely include an AVR chip, since I have a bunch of spares. I'm just not sure about how adding a DIP to the package will affect shipping.
Can I please get 2 boards and 2 AVR?
TIA
Bm
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- PhracturedBlue
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- Birdman
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I'm a bit confused, must have missed something.
Can this be made yet? I can get AVR overnight from Farnell, have all the gear to make own board.
Is there a file for AVR?
Bm
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- Birdman
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Bm
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- victzh
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- Birdman
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Will it work on wife's Devo7, she wants to get a Proto X.
Bm
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- victzh
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- Birdman
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I wonder why this module did not use ppm, all decent tx have ppm?
Bm
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- blackmoon
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SPI is the way to go in the case of the devo line for which this module was developed.
Btw midelic is thinking about using the module to make a ppm one, I'll send him a V1.2 board when I receive it from OSH.
So if your patient, you'll have a ppm compatible universal module when it's ready.
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- victzh
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Are these enough reasons? The SPI is a Deviation-specific, integrated solution. Universal PPM module need to duplicate a large portion of what is already implemented in core Deviation code in the module and nevertheless will lack the elegance of SPI solution.
May be Deviation does not implement all possible functionality for some categories of models, say gliders. But it's becoming better and better, and community development model is very encouraging, for me personally at least, I know I can make a difference. Try to develop for Futaba
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- Birdman
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blackmoon wrote: Why use the lesser way when you can have more ?
SPI is the way to go in the case of the devo line for which this module was developed.
Btw midelic is thinking about using the module to make a ppm one, I'll send him a V1.2 board when I receive it from OSH.
So if your patient, you'll have a ppm compatible universal module when it's ready.
Cheers
I clearly don't understand the direction of deviation or this module.
I think that has a lot to do with being a pilot, not a programmer.
You have more but that means less people can use it.
Bm
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- Mmon77
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Using SPI, Deviation currently can. ER9X cannot, since it uses PPM to control the modules.
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- blackmoon
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Birdman wrote: Cheers
I clearly don't understand the direction of deviation or this module.
I think that has a lot to do with being a pilot, not a programmer.
You have more but that means less people can use it.
Bm
Birdman I'm sorry if I seemed harsh, it wasn't my intention. The thing is that this module is specially developed to capitalize on what deviation has become so far.
As I wrote, midelic will probably implement some of the protocols into the universal module but with ppm input instead of spi.
I don't know how he'll do it, maybe by using a more powerful mcu in place of the Attiny.
Just be patient, in the mean time you can always build the hubsan module in his thread and fly the protoX with that.
If you can solder I can send you a pcb to build the module if you want, just PM here or on RCG.
Only thing is do the Devo7 has ppm out ?
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- PhracturedBlue
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The main problem is protocol selection, and I've yet to see a good solution for an external module. When using Deviation, we could use a special PPM train to send digital data, but in that case, might as well use SPI which is far superior. When using a closed-source Tx, you'd need to either have switches on the back, or use some stick input to control it. You also end up wanting some sort of display of the current protocol selected, and then some way to input parameters, and ... Now you've got a large, expensive module (and it still can't reliably do telemetry). The way I've gone, Deviation gets all the benefits we want at the lowest cost I can achieve. If someone else wants to hook up a PPM to SPI converter (which I think th9xr is also working on), that's cool, but it isn't my project.
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- midelic
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yes it 's true any porting from your code in arduino ends up changed...
One reason because of control.... I need to "feel" I can control the project in all aspects...
Second I use different pinout and bitbanging...free the avr programming pins for more flexibility , integration and compatibility with other systems.
I was thinking long time about a multi protocol project...I wanted to make one ..happy I found this one...a little late...if I was here from the beginning...maybe I could suggest some changes .
For example power supply to each module.IMO it was better not be common but separate connected to a different pin of and avr(more powerful) by means of a transistor controllable the power on/off from software.(for example a command from avr open the gate of a transistor enabling powering the specific module).
Atm all modules are powered on/off at the same time ..which is not good imo.
About PPM ..this doesn't impede using lights or flips control on Hubsan for example using channel 5 and 6.
Blackmoon was kind to give one of his board when arrived I'll use this one with Atmega328(have enough space to fit all protocols).
Because I want to make a stand alone module.I was thinking for protocol selection using DIP multi switch...SMD...small compact and multiple switches on a row.See pic.
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