Not sure if my pitch curves are working

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SvdSinner
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28 Jun 2015 00:22 #34777 by SvdSinner

Not sure if my pitch curves are working was created by SvdSinner

(Devo 10, RX1002, TREX 450)
I'm doing ground testing on a heli that hasn't flown yet, and am trying to set it up for Scale flying.
I went into pitch curves and set Normal to (-2,0,3,5,

, Idle Up 1 to (-2,0,3,3,3), and Idle Up 2 to (-6,-4,-2,0, 2), and tried to confirm everything with my pitch gauge. However, I discovered that flipping the flight mode switch between the three modes, that the switch is having no effect on the collective what-so-ever, and the collective is essentially running 1to1 (basically -8,-4,0,4,

no matter what I set in the pitch curve screen.

Thus far I have confirmed:

The throttle settings seem to work as expected. (Throttle output follows throttle curve for whichever flight mode is selected.)
The TX does see the correct input from the Flight mode switch
The TX is looking to the FMODE switch for flight mode

I'm not sure if there is a bug with the firmware, or if I'm doing something wrong.
1) Am I right that the collective (as mixed for a 3 servo 120 config) should follow the "pitch curve" for the selected flight mode, and that I should see immediate and crisp movement of the swashplate when switching flight modes (when switching between modes that should cause the swashplate to move.)?
2) Is there any type of save I need to do to start using changes to the pitch curve? (IOW, Am I right to expect the swash plate to immediately respond to changes I make to the pitch curve, rather than have to somehow load the new settings?)
3) Are there other settings that I could have wrong that could be causing this?

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FDR
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28 Jun 2015 07:56 #34780 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Not sure if my pitch curves are working

1. I think your values are too low.
In deviation the pitch values are not in degrees, they have a range from -100 to +100.

2. Have you set a swash type other then normal 1 servo?

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Thomas.Heiss
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28 Jun 2015 11:01 #34781 by Thomas.Heiss

Replied by Thomas.Heiss on topic Not sure if my pitch curves are working

Caution!

On the bench you normally will have throttle hold set to on.
That is a 4th hold curve!

You would have to unplug 2 motor cables and deactivate TH to see any flight mode changes.

Personally I have additionaly set a 2nd Gear1 saftety (-100).

Are you sure you do edit CYC-COL channel pitch curves?

You are right. In most all mixers you really have to press SAVE 1-2 times or edit settings are lost.
Once you pressed save you will notice changes immediately.

-100 = max negativ pitch
0 = 0 degree pitch
+100 = max positive pitch

What number is your last N? 8? “8.)“ got replaced by smilie?!

> Idle Up 1 to (-2,0,3,3,3), and Idle Up 2 to (-6,-4,-2,0, 2),

I would say have ST1 and ST2 the same number 0 in the middle. That will prevent a jumping heli when you switch between them.

+3 pitch max? Do you really want that?

I do NOT understand why it makes sense to have first 3 numbers on ST2 negativ, that is -2 on the middle.
Negativ on pitch stick middle? Shouldn`t that be 0 or positive?

The second and third numbers on ST1 vs ST2 are quite different.
Lots of problems when changing in flight!
I do get what you try to achieve with ST1 and 3rd +3.

ST2 max +2??? What is the sense behind that?
Why do you need max -6 pitch but only have +2?

I guess you would not need more than -3 to -4 pitch??

I am on max +8 to +10 pitch.
All the pitch values (e.g +100) will depend on CCPM numbers (e.g +57 vs +70 vs +85 pitch).
You need to setup your CCPM first.
Thus you need -100 and +100 in the pitch curve TH.

Have you setup 0 pitch yet? You need the pitch curve point 0 at middle stick then.

Probably you would have to explain a lot more to check for correct pitch curves.
But looks like you are heli advanced yet??
I am not into scale flying...

What I do personally is have pitch 0 on mid stick.
Same for N, ST1, ST2.
To be more in the near of mid stick (1st line instead of 2nd line) I do raise the pitch points a bit instead of having a linear curve:
Eg -30 -20 0 +75 + 100 instead of -30 - 20 0 +50 +100.

9 point pitch curve example:
-40 -40 -40 -30 0 +50 +75 +90 +100

I do NOT really like having -4/-3 pitch only at (max) down pitch stick.
For a normal -100 -50 0 +50 +100 pitch curve the -3/-4 pich are more directed to MIDDLE stick.
So I just limit the OUTER points instead of moving them in general more down the stick.

Hope it helps a bit.
Feel free to ask.

Thomas

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SvdSinner
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28 Jun 2015 17:58 #34796 by SvdSinner

Replied by SvdSinner on topic Not sure if my pitch curves are working

FDR wrote: 1. I think your values are too low.
In deviation the pitch values are not in degrees, they have a range from -100 to +100.

Those are the blade pitches (in degrees) at the various points. I know those aren't the numbers used by the DEVO, but that just seems to be the most common way that I've seen pitch curves described on Heli forums. Therefore -100 to 100 (1 to 1) would be (-8, -4, 0, 4, 8 ) in that notation, since my swash was originally set for 3D with +/- 8 degrees of pitch.
The values aren't important, just that they are different enough that I should be seeing a difference when I switch flight modes.

FDR wrote: 2. Have you set a swash type other then normal 1 servo?

Yes. It is set for 3 servo 120, and moves as expected based on cyclic and collective control inputs.

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FDR
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28 Jun 2015 18:11 #34798 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Not sure if my pitch curves are working

Did you use the Cyclic-1, 2, 3 mixer types for the aileron, elevator and pitch channels?
The easiest way to configure a model which needs CPPM to start with a new model and load the 6ch heli template into it...

If you post your model config file, we can take a deeper look...

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SvdSinner
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28 Jun 2015 18:28 #34800 by SvdSinner

Replied by SvdSinner on topic Not sure if my pitch curves are working

Thomas.Heiss wrote: Caution!
On the bench you normally will have throttle hold set to on.
That is a 4th hold curve!
You would have to unplug 2 motor cables and deactivate TH to see any flight mode changes.
Personally I have additionaly set a 2nd Gear1 saftety (-100).

Thanks! This was part (but not all) of the solution. I hadn't realized that there was a throttle hold curve. When I realized that, and set it's curve, the system responded properly in Throttle hold mode.

After pulling the wires on the motor:
GOOD NEWS: I now get obvious (and expected) movement when I flip the GEAR switch between throttle hold ON and OFF, and when I turn throttle hold fuctionality ON and OFF in the firmware.

BAD NEWS: I still get no change when I change the FMODE switch, regardless of the settings of the GEAR switch. It appears than when I am not in throttle hold mode, No curve is applied (IOW, -100 to 100 1to1), which does not correspond to any of the pitch curves I have set.

What setting could be preventing the FMODE switch from changing pitch curves?

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SvdSinner
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28 Jun 2015 18:39 - 28 Jun 2015 18:48 #34801 by SvdSinner

Replied by SvdSinner on topic Not sure if my pitch curves are working

FDR wrote: f you post your model config file, we can take a deeper look...

Here it is:

name=Main copter
mixermode=Standard
icon=HELI.BMP
[radio]
protocol=DEVO
num_channels=10
fixed_id=471850
tx_power=100uW

[protocol_opts]
Telemetry=Off

[channel1]
reverse=1
failsafe=0
subtrim=-255
template=cyclic2

[channel2]
reverse=1
template=cyclic1

[channel3]
safetysw=!GEAR0
failsafe=-10
safetyval=-100
scalar-=100
template=complex
[mixer]
src=THR
dest=Ch3
curvetype=9point
points=60,61,62,63,65,66,67,68,70
[mixer]
src=THR
dest=Ch3
switch=MIX1
curvetype=9point
points=-100,-50,58,60,62,63,65,67,69
[mixer]
src=THR
dest=Ch3
switch=MIX2
curvetype=9point
points=-100,-88,-75,-63,-50,-25,0,40,100

[channel4]
template=expo_dr
[mixer]
src=RUD
dest=Ch4
curvetype=expo
points=10,10
[mixer]
src=RUD
dest=Ch4
switch=FMODE1
curvetype=expo
points=10,10
[mixer]
src=RUD
dest=Ch4
switch=FMODE2
curvetype=expo
points=0,0

[channel5]
template=expo_dr
[mixer]
src=MIX0
dest=Ch5
scalar=40
curvetype=fixed
[mixer]
src=MIX0
dest=Ch5
switch=MIX1
scalar=0
curvetype=fixed
[mixer]
src=MIX0
dest=Ch5
switch=MIX2
scalar=-100
curvetype=fixed

[channel6]
failsafe=-3
subtrim=128
scalar-=100
template=cyclic3

[virtchan1]
template=expo_dr
[mixer]
src=AIL
dest=Virt1
curvetype=expo
points=10,10
[mixer]
src=AIL
dest=Virt1
switch=FMODE1
curvetype=expo
points=10,10
[mixer]
src=AIL
dest=Virt1
switch=FMODE2
curvetype=expo
points=0,0

[virtchan2]
template=expo_dr
[mixer]
src=ELE
dest=Virt2
curvetype=expo
points=10,10
[mixer]
src=ELE
dest=Virt2
switch=FMODE1
curvetype=expo
points=10,10
[mixer]
src=ELE
dest=Virt2
switch=FMODE2
curvetype=expo
points=0,0

[virtchan3]
template=complex
[mixer]
src=THR
dest=Virt3
curvetype=9point
points=-35,-25,-14,-4,7,25,43,61,80
[mixer]
src=THR
dest=Virt3
switch=MIX1
curvetype=9point
points=-100,-65,-30,5,40,40,40,40,40
[mixer]
src=THR
dest=Virt3
switch=MIX2
curvetype=9point
points=-100,-84,-67,-50,-33,-16,1,18,35

[trim1]
src=LEFT_V
pos=TRIMLV+
neg=TRIMLV-
[trim2]
src=RIGHT_V
pos=TRIMRV+
neg=TRIMRV-
value=28,0,0
[trim3]
src=LEFT_H
pos=TRIMLH+
neg=TRIMLH-
value=97,0,0
[trim4]
src=RIGHT_H
pos=TRIMRH+
neg=TRIMRH-
value=1,0,0
[swash]
type=120
ele_inv=1
ail_mix=50
ele_mix=50
col_mix=50
[timer1]
type=permanent
val=8436540
[timer2]
src=Ch3
[datalog]
switch=None
rate=1 sec
[safety]
Auto=min
[gui-128x64]
V-trim=59,10,1
H-trim=5,59,3
V-trim=65,10,2
H-trim=74,59,4
Small-box=2,22,Ch3
Small-box=2,31,Timer1
Small-box=2,39,Timer2
Model=75,20
Battery=102,1
Toggle=4,10,0,3,0,RUD DR
Toggle=13,10,0,5,0,ELE DR
Toggle=22,10,0,4,0,AIL DR
Toggle=31,10,0,0,0,None
Toggle=40,10,0,0,0,None
TxPower=102,7
quickpage1=Telemetry monitor

FWIW, this is the trim that actually results in the angles I want in normal flight: (Currently is my throttle hold pitch curve, since that appears to be the only one working right now.)

[virtchan3]
template=complex
[mixer]
src=THR
dest=Virt3
curvetype=9point
points=-35,-25,-14,-4,7,25,43,61,80

Last edit: 28 Jun 2015 18:48 by SvdSinner. Reason: Added "correct" pitch curve

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FDR
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28 Jun 2015 19:03 #34802 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Not sure if my pitch curves are working

You have configured the MIX switch as the flight mode switch.
Was it intentional?

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SvdSinner
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28 Jun 2015 21:52 #34812 by SvdSinner

Replied by SvdSinner on topic Not sure if my pitch curves are working

FDR wrote: You have configured the MIX switch as the flight mode switch.
Was it intentional?

Nope.

Just something I did in the last day or so trying to get it to work. Must've set that before I figured out the throttle hold stuff, and forgot about it.

Your help was invaluable. Thanks. I was going nuts.

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