Simplified mixer

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01 Jan 2013 06:43 - 01 Jan 2013 06:49 #4456 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic Simplified mixer
Heli:
Normal (NORMAL, NORM)
Stunt 1 (STNT-1, ST-1)
Stunt 2 (STNT-2, ST-2)
Hold (HOLD, HOLD)

Airplane:
FMode 0 (FMOD-0, FM-0)
FMode 1 (FMOD-1, FM-1)
FMode 2 (FMOD-2, FM-2)

Glider:
SPEED
CRUISE
THERMAL
LAND
LAUNCH
DIST

Maybe we need Flight Mode Name function?
Last edit: 01 Jan 2013 06:49 by vlad_vy.
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01 Jan 2013 09:26 #4463 by sbstnp
Replied by sbstnp on topic Simplified mixer

vlad_vy wrote: Maybe we need Flight Mode Name function?


Hehe, maybe yes. AFAIK the simple mixer only supports helicopters atm.

Devo 10 + 4in1
Spektrum Dx9
FrSky Taranis + TBS Crossfire
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01 Jan 2013 13:10 - 01 Jan 2013 13:16 #4470 by Hexperience
Replied by Hexperience on topic Simplified mixer
Trying version 11d5c470486b on my 8s. When I select a new model, then change to standard gui, then try to touch an icon, I get invalid ini file error...


Correction. It only happens on:

the pitch curve
and throttle curve
D/R expo
Gyro sense

Happens on the rx and in the emu

maybe the build changed? I did copy over the fs as well.

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
Last edit: 01 Jan 2013 13:16 by Hexperience.
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01 Jan 2013 14:17 #4472 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Simplified mixer
make sure you have the helistd.ini template file installed. You should also try directly loading this template.
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01 Jan 2013 14:22 - 01 Jan 2013 14:37 #4473 by Hexperience
Replied by Hexperience on topic Simplified mixer
ok, will do.
Also wanted to mention that I got a reboot when changing the switch in a complexe mix
I had to do my 3 flight mode settings with the dual rate/expo screens

---edit---
Yep, after I manually load the template file it's ok.
Not sure if it was just the way you typed it in to post, but the template name in the devo8 fs file is heli_std.ini. I renamed it to helistd.ini to try that as well, but it didn't make a difference.

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
Last edit: 01 Jan 2013 14:37 by Hexperience.
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01 Jan 2013 15:00 #4475 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Simplified mixer
That is a bug from when I changed from 'simple' to 'standard'. I just committed the fix
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01 Jan 2013 15:13 #4478 by Hexperience
Replied by Hexperience on topic Simplified mixer
Great.

Also, even in the emulator:

Load a new model.
Change ele (or any) channel to complex.
add a page 2
try to change the switch from none to anything.

emu locks up, devo reboots.
Cheers

Do you want me to submit a bug? I don't have an account on bit bucket to do it, but of course I can make one.

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
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01 Jan 2013 16:22 #4480 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Simplified mixer
yes please. you don't need an account to submit bugs (though I think it helps if you want to be notified when they are fixed)
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03 Jan 2013 10:57 #4561 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
So, happy new year for everybody, here I am again, pretending to work while actually thinking about deviation... ;)

Since the simple GUI didn't let me sleep last night, I was thinking about it a lot.
If you don't mind I will share my thoughts with you.

First it is a huge help to all the novices, who come to deviation, but don't really understand the "advanced" mixer.
However, since they all (but a few, who just bought the DEVO because of deviation ;) ) come from the devention interface, the more it corresponds to the original the easier for them to convert their existing model configs to deviation.

That's why I was against the 9 point curves:

FDR wrote: Besides, I don't get why curves are 9 point?
All the DEVOs (except the 12) have 7 point curves, so if we want to give them a similar and hence familiar interface, why don't you offer a 7 point curve?
I have to admit, that I like quarters better then thirds, but this way existing DEVO users have to recalculate all their curves...

I think, the 9 point curves won't offer too much advantage to those, for whom the advanced mixer is too complicated anyway...

So, if I were you I would:
- make the curves 7 point;
- make D/R assymmetric, and let it go to +-125% (instead of 120%);
- the range of the subtrims differ too (62.5% in 0.5% steps vs 50% in 0.1% steps), but I think it's not that important.

Since it starts to get too long, I will write about all the menu items in detail one by one...
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03 Jan 2013 11:13 #4564 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
About the model menu page:
I've got idea about the new uniform icons, just need some time (and some more) to draw them...

I would reorder the menu items later to match the setup order (and the color code of the icons, but more about them later), since on the touch screen it is not necessary to start with the most frequently used ones, because all are accessible on one page.
(BTW since the DEVO 10 remembers the last used one, it won't need the most frequent first either...)
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03 Jan 2013 11:22 - 03 Jan 2013 11:23 #4566 by sbstnp
Replied by sbstnp on topic Simplified mixer
I know my personal opinion isn't highly valued around here :whistle: but I still think the standard mixer is a gimmick, a temporary familiar place for new users which will abandon it anyway. That's my opinion and you can hate me for it :silly:

But there's this saying "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime".

The standard mixer is the first part of these wise words.

In the end, when all the possible mixes will have been added, and I talk about airplane mixers, etc, probably we'll have a shortage of ROM and RAM and there will be 2 editions of Deviation. It's inevitable. Or, it will be incomplete, and obviously will miss it's purpose.

So we'd better write some good documentation, and I'm willing to contribute as much as I can, because I predict the simple interface will not be enough.

My opinion - love me or hate me for it.

Devo 10 + 4in1
Spektrum Dx9
FrSky Taranis + TBS Crossfire
Last edit: 03 Jan 2013 11:23 by sbstnp.
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03 Jan 2013 11:39 #4569 by domcars0
Replied by domcars0 on topic Simplified mixer
I'm not so far to think as "sbstnp" ... I think that a fork will come, soon or later.
Now that I've understand the Advanced mixer principles, I will never come back to the standard one...

Devo 10 (+7e) owner. It's mine, please don't touch it with your big fingers :angry:
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03 Jan 2013 12:17 #4573 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
I think this thread is not about debating whether the simple GUI is needed or not...
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03 Jan 2013 12:32 - 03 Jan 2013 12:32 #4576 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
So, I continue in no particular order, just as they come to my mind...

About the switch assignment:
First, it shouldn't allow the same switch to be configured to controversial functions, however it might enable for example the flight mode and the gyro for the same switch. (i.e. currently the throttle hold should be different)
We may leave that to the users, but we want to help them, don't we? ;)

Second:
- flight mode has more options then the original, which is good;
- the gyro has about the same options as the original, so this is good also;
- however the throttle hold has fewer options, because the use of the 3 way switches are not specific enough.

Also, I would like the throttle hold and gyro switch to be on their appropriate page too! (The gyro switch is there in the original fw...)
The purpose of having them together too is to see, are there any contradictions.
Last edit: 03 Jan 2013 12:32 by FDR.
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03 Jan 2013 12:40 - 03 Jan 2013 13:23 #4580 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
Next is the gyro, because it is related to the previous:

If the gyro switch will be there too, it would be nice, if in case of a 2 way switch is selected, the third value could be hidden or disabled.

The range is 0%..+100% mapped to our -100%..+100%, which is good IMO.
Last edit: 03 Jan 2013 13:23 by FDR.
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03 Jan 2013 12:50 - 03 Jan 2013 13:24 #4581 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
Throttle hold is alike:
If the throttle hold switch is configured on that page (too), there is no need for the on/off option: if a switch is selected, then it's on, if not, then off.

EDIT: ...and of course if the switch is none (or off as you please), the value could be hidden or disabled.
Last edit: 03 Jan 2013 13:24 by FDR.
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03 Jan 2013 13:16 #4584 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
Swash type:

I've already asked about that:

FDR wrote: Don't you think that the simplified swash form could be unified with the heli options form?

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03 Jan 2013 13:37 #4587 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
D/R & Expo:

The main thing here is that the original allows you to set asymmetric values, and that the rate value's range was +-125% in the original.

Other then that I miss the +-100% markings on the graphs, and they xy proportions are off too, since the whole y axis is 240% now (should be 250%), while the x axis is only 200%.
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03 Jan 2013 13:47 #4588 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
About the curves (both throttle and pitch) in general:

I think the function of the "auto" button should be really automatic, i.e. for every point value change and locing/unlocking it should recalculate the automatoc points and redraw the graph.

Other: the mid point is locked in the original, but it is not that important IMO.
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03 Jan 2013 13:52 #4590 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Simplified mixer
That's all for the pitch curves...

However in case of the throttle curves, there is the question: shouldn't we map these to the 0%..100% range just like you did with the gyro value?
The original (and I think the other brands too) handle the throttle between 0 and 100.
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