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Renaming inputs for Deviation
- PhracturedBlue
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AIL_DR will become AIL_DR0 and AIL_DR1 (and AIL_DR2 on the Devo12)
This will also make it easier for folks who want to reverse the meaning of switches in Deviation (where 'down' is off)
I thought I had this sorted, but the more I think about it the less convinced I am, so I'd like some feedbck on the following options to enable compatibility across radios:
Should a 2-position switch's "On" position map to the middle position or far position on a radio where that same switch has 3 positions?
Example:
Devo8 <----> Devo12
(1)
AIL_DR0 <----> AIL_DR0
AIL_DR1 <----> AIL_DR1
AIL_DR1 <----- AIL_DR2
OR
(2)
AIL_DR0 <----> AIL_DR0
AIL_DR1 <----> AIL_DR2
AIL_DR1 <----- AIL_DR1
OR
(3)
AIL_DR0 <----> AIL_DR0
AIL_DR1 -----> NOT AIL_DR0
AIL_DR1 <----- AIL_DR1
AIL_DR1 <----- AIL_DR2
Note that I have a goal of having the same model file work in all radios, so I don't really have a good technical solution to the last option. That is because it probably implies you have a mapping table from each radio to each other radio which is not maintainable. If this option is really the best, I'll probably need to name 2-position and 3-position switches differently in the model.ini file.
If we choose (2) the names in Devo8/10 is there a concern about naming the switches in the Devo8/10 interface 'AIL_DR2' instead of 'AIL_DR1'? That would make coding easier, but maybe confusing to users who may wonder where 'AIL_DR1' went.
Anyhow, I'm open to feedback on this before I go and actually implement the change.
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- sbstnp
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- Posts: 649
Second, I think they should map like in you (1) schematic. It's probably the less confusing of them all.
To be honest I don't think there is an easy way to make 100% workable model config across all transmitters. 100% compatible yes, but not identical in functionality.
Devo 10 + 4in1
FrSky Taranis + TBS Crossfire
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- vlad_vy
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- Hexperience
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- Posts: 588
AIL_DR0 <----> AIL_DR0
AIL_DR1 <----> AIL_DR1
AIL_DR1 X<---- AIL_DR2
My personal feeling is that AIL_DR2 simply gets dropped. The use of that switch is for rates. So if I have DR2 set and I want to give the config to someone with an 8, I would have to set DR1 to an appropriate value.
The 12 has so many more inputs, what will happen to those? For example, the 12 has a throttle hold switch which I will be using for sure. My models won't use the RUD_DR for hold anymore. I don't think there really is anyway to translate that backwards.
I really applaud your dedication to the idea of one model config for all, but I don't see how it's possible to go backwards here.
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- rbe2012
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If I have a model config with a three-way-switch I would prefer loosing the middle one if I step down to a Devo8 - it is in most cases a compromise between 0 and 2.
(1) may be less confusing but makes me loose one of my endpoints.
But I agree: naming it DR2 may confuse many people but would be neccessary to go back from 8 to 12 (the model file must contain all three values, but only 2 of them will be active). We have to make a change now and I think, whatever the new way is: if it is described clearly in the manual everyone can understand it.
Some more thoughts:
Maybe the not available inputs could be visible (but grayed out/not selectable) in Devo8... so people get used to them? Or is skipping these input uncomfortable?
What about reversing inputs? Now they are marked with an "!". Will this go on in the future? Or will we find only non-inverted inputs, dr0 and dr1 instead of dr0 and !dr0?
What will be (Devo12)!DR1 in Devo8? DR0 and DR2? Or will it be ignored?
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- vlad_vy
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- PhracturedBlue
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- Posts: 4402
Regardless of solution, all switches will work like the 'FMODE' and 'MIX' switches. You can invert any switch. so you can do 'NOT AIL_DR0' which on a devo8 will be identical to 'AIL_DR1' but would mean 'AIL_DR1 or AIL_DR2' on a Devo12
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- sbstnp
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rbe2012 wrote: Maybe the not available inputs could be visible (but grayed out/not selectable) in Devo8... so people get used to them? Or is skipping these input uncomfortable?
Keep in mind there is Devo 10 and 7e as well. You can't have graying out on those.
Devo 10 + 4in1
FrSky Taranis + TBS Crossfire
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- sbstnp
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- Posts: 649
PhracturedBlue wrote: Agreed that in most cases a devo12 config will not 'just work' in a devo8. but it should preserve as much functionality as possible so that it is easy to get working on that Tx.
Regardless of solution, all switches will work like the 'FMODE' and 'MIX' switches. You can invert any switch. so you can do 'NOT AIL_DR0' which on a devo8 will be identical to 'AIL_DR1' but would mean 'AIL_DR1 or AIL_DR2' on a Devo12
TBH having assignable and visible 'zero' states makes configuring models even more clear than atm, when you basically have to assume the 'zero' position, visually I mean.
I agree than NOT AIL_DR0 when on a 12 should mean both 1 & 2, but only 1 on the D8 or D10.
When downgrading a config I still think losing the mixer assigned on 2 position is the best solution.
Maybe this isn't the place to state this but. everyone should at least superficially inspect a model config after loading it up. Not doing so can be a recipe for disaster. We should encourage this discipline as much as we can.
If we put up big warnings everywhere that downgrading a model will do 'this' and 'that' to the config, in the end the downgrade path will not matter so much.
Devo 10 + 4in1
FrSky Taranis + TBS Crossfire
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- PhracturedBlue
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- Hexperience
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Lets say on my devo12 a set rates like:
0: 60% (safe, stable, take off and land)
1: 80% (sport flying)
2: 100% (crazy 3d)
I would rather have the highest rate lost when I give the config to someone. If they want to increase it they can.
If the switches are being used for something else, like throttle hold, then really all bets are off because at that point it could be anything.
Even without the 12 in the deviation pool, some people will put TH on the left some on the right. Some put throttle curves in with the pitch curves on the fmode switch some use the mix switch....
PB whatever you find the easiest will be fine with me. As stated, we are all responsible for checking a config before we use it, and for those of us who generally make config files rather than download them, we will have to be aware of the differences.
How's the DOOM port coming by the way... This devo 12 is impressive. I can't see needing another radio for some time to come.
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- FDR
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Explanation:
The (1) is better then the (2), because if we use scheme (2), then a good working DEVO 8 config would cause an empty mid state on the DEVO 12, which is barely usable. It would be an invalid state, and you have to switch throw that to get to the other valid state. No good.
However in the scheme (1), if you assign both DR1 and DR2 to the same DR1 state, it would be again an invalid config, because there might be two contradictory state both on.
So I think it would be better to drop the DR2 state.
But how?
They should be assigned to a new constant FALSE switch.
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- Hexperience
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- Posts: 588
devo8 devo12
AIL_DR0 <----> AIL_DR0
AIL_DR1 <----> AIL_DR1
AIL_DR1 -----> AIL_DR2
Sorry... I see now, that is number 3 above, but minus the DR1 <--- DR2.
Although, I'm not crazy about the use of NOT AIL_DR0 in a conversion. Better to just copy the value to both D1 and D2 during the conversion. Then the user can change DR2 without too much confusion.
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- FDR
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- RandMental
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- FDR
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www.deviationtx.com/forum/3-feedback-que...es?limitstart=0#4870
That way a model config (and even more a template) could use a "virtual thottle hold switch", which everybody could assign to that real switch he want to use for that function...
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- Hexperience
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- vlad_vy
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Devo8 <----> Devo12
(*)
AIL_DR0 <----> AIL_DR0
AIL_DR1 <----> AIL_DR1
AIL_DR1 -----> AIL_DR2
I think what will be with complex mixer (3 pages) after conwersion from Devo 12 to devo8:
Devo 12
AIL_DR0 - AIL_DR1 - AIL_DR2
Devo 8
(*) AIL_DR0 - AIL_DR1 - None???
(1) AIL_DR0 - AIL_DR1 - AIL_DR1
(2) AIL_DR0 - AIL_DR1 - AIL_DR1
(3) AIL_DR0 - AIL_DR1 - None???
I think will be better replace/mark all inconvertible switches with red FALSE and value 0 ('false'). At such case pop up warning dialog in time of loading model file.
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- Hexperience
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That's 11 inputs that don't exist on the devo8... Personally I don't think it's possible to convert that, considering we can assign anything we want to any of those inputs.
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