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Antenna Orientation Question
- Flightless Bird
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16 May 2016 21:55 - 17 May 2016 01:29 #48555
by Flightless Bird
Antenna Orientation Question was created by Flightless Bird
I got to thinking about Antennas today... and I have a question for the RF wizards here.
From my understanding, a "typical" omnidirectional 2db or 6db 2.4gHZ antenna has a radiation pattern that looks like a "donut" (without the "hole"), with a "null" spot directly in the direction that the antenna tip points to.
Give this, and given the fact that most (non-FPV) people will face their aircraft with the transmitter "backside" in the direction of the aircraft, wouldn't it make more sense to turn the antenna SIDEWAYS instead of sticking it up vertically like most people do?
That way, as the aircraft climbs, it will not leave the "donut" as fast, since the donut will be vertical instead of flat horizontal. The radiation "null" area would be pointing "sideways", instead of up in the air where the aircraft will eventially fly into it as it climbs.
Does this make sense? Is my thinking correct in light of wanting maximum range for quads? Am I overthinking this, or would turning the antenna sideways maybe give real improvement for high flights?
From my understanding, a "typical" omnidirectional 2db or 6db 2.4gHZ antenna has a radiation pattern that looks like a "donut" (without the "hole"), with a "null" spot directly in the direction that the antenna tip points to.
Give this, and given the fact that most (non-FPV) people will face their aircraft with the transmitter "backside" in the direction of the aircraft, wouldn't it make more sense to turn the antenna SIDEWAYS instead of sticking it up vertically like most people do?
That way, as the aircraft climbs, it will not leave the "donut" as fast, since the donut will be vertical instead of flat horizontal. The radiation "null" area would be pointing "sideways", instead of up in the air where the aircraft will eventially fly into it as it climbs.
Does this make sense? Is my thinking correct in light of wanting maximum range for quads? Am I overthinking this, or would turning the antenna sideways maybe give real improvement for high flights?
Last edit: 17 May 2016 01:29 by Flightless Bird.
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- RedSleds
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17 May 2016 00:34 - 17 May 2016 00:44 #48565
by RedSleds
DEVO 10 - Multi-module with nRF24L01 +PA +LNA, A7105 +PA, & CC2500 +PA +LNA transceivers.
Nightly Build: v4.0.1-548bbf5 (6/9/2015)
Replied by RedSleds on topic Antenna Orientation Question
From everything that I have read, the Tx antenna and the Rx antenna should be in parallel planes for best signal strength. So, for best signal strength, it would depend on how the Rx antenna is oriented in the model and the way it would be presented to the Tx antenna during the majority of normal operation.
DEVO 10 - Multi-module with nRF24L01 +PA +LNA, A7105 +PA, & CC2500 +PA +LNA transceivers.
Nightly Build: v4.0.1-548bbf5 (6/9/2015)
Last edit: 17 May 2016 00:44 by RedSleds.
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- RoGuE_StreaK
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17 May 2016 03:32 #48568
by RoGuE_StreaK
Replied by RoGuE_StreaK on topic Antenna Orientation Question
Yes the worst orientation is "pointing the antenna at the model", which is typically how many/most fly; if you do this (turning to face the model etc) then your antenna should be bent at 90 degrees or so, either down or to the side like you suggest.
As far as I understand it the 7E and 6 have a monopole, so no real "donut", but inversely less concentration so less planar range. The more dbi the more pronounced the donut and thinner the plane of radiation (this is all regurgitation BTW, I'm only going on minimal info I've read elsewhere)
As far as I understand it the 7E and 6 have a monopole, so no real "donut", but inversely less concentration so less planar range. The more dbi the more pronounced the donut and thinner the plane of radiation (this is all regurgitation BTW, I'm only going on minimal info I've read elsewhere)
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- Fernandez
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17 May 2016 07:19 #48574
by Fernandez
Replied by Fernandez on topic Antenna Orientation Question
I use pcb antennas (J-pole type) and placed them horizontally inside my 7e, I have found no issues so far.
Think about cellphone, all antenna are inside. As long as it is not covered during flight should be fine.
I think the way the devo 7e stock antenna, pointing towards the model, is not optimal for range, wrong.
An interesting antenna would be circular polarized antenna, such as a ceramic patch antenna, the type of typical square GPS antenna, but no manufacturar uses that, don't know why?
Think about cellphone, all antenna are inside. As long as it is not covered during flight should be fine.
I think the way the devo 7e stock antenna, pointing towards the model, is not optimal for range, wrong.
An interesting antenna would be circular polarized antenna, such as a ceramic patch antenna, the type of typical square GPS antenna, but no manufacturar uses that, don't know why?
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- RedSleds
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17 May 2016 08:47 - 17 May 2016 09:39 #48577
by RedSleds
DEVO 10 - Multi-module with nRF24L01 +PA +LNA, A7105 +PA, & CC2500 +PA +LNA transceivers.
Nightly Build: v4.0.1-548bbf5 (6/9/2015)
Replied by RedSleds on topic Antenna Orientation Question
If you have about 30 minutes to spare, watch this video. It explains a lot of the concepts of RC antenna polarization/orientation, types of antennae, and how it all affects signal strength and range. The video is actually about RC ground stations, but the antenna principles remain the same for what you want to know. It gets into different types of antennae that you will probably won't be using, but is interesting just the same.
>>> vimeo.com/8826952 <<<
Just envision that a "rubber ducky" antenna with a higher gain design, say a 6dB or 9dB, will not be circular shaped like a 3dB is, being squashed flatter, like a flattened donut, giving more distance but also being more directional, so aiming it at the model is more critical.
>>> vimeo.com/8826952 <<<
Just envision that a "rubber ducky" antenna with a higher gain design, say a 6dB or 9dB, will not be circular shaped like a 3dB is, being squashed flatter, like a flattened donut, giving more distance but also being more directional, so aiming it at the model is more critical.
DEVO 10 - Multi-module with nRF24L01 +PA +LNA, A7105 +PA, & CC2500 +PA +LNA transceivers.
Nightly Build: v4.0.1-548bbf5 (6/9/2015)
Last edit: 17 May 2016 09:39 by RedSleds.
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- Cereal_Killer
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17 May 2016 13:00 #48590
by Cereal_Killer
Taranis X9E | DEVO 10 | Devo U7E | Taranis Q7
What I do in real life: rivergoequestrian.com/
Replied by Cereal_Killer on topic Antenna Orientation Question
Over the last several months I did some pretty extensive testing [of MY system, I'm not saying this is an end-all conclusive test] using FlightLog data as the feedback.
When flying anywhere but DIRECTLY overhead I found the least number of antenna switching events by keeping the antenna straight up and down (perpendicular to ground) with the models antenna pointed each at 45* out from vertical (and 90* from one another). With the tx antenna horizontal one of the RX antenna would have about the same number of switching events but the other would be 3 times or more greater than the other meaning it's loosing contact and having to switch to the other 3 times as much.
Flying directly overhead is the only time having the TX antenna horizontal wasn't a bad idea and even then I'd imagine you'd need to fly several times the legal ceiling before you had problems with the antenna being vertical.
One of my two complaints about my new X9E taranis, I've got a high-gain antenna ordered for it thought so I can have it vertical too...
When flying anywhere but DIRECTLY overhead I found the least number of antenna switching events by keeping the antenna straight up and down (perpendicular to ground) with the models antenna pointed each at 45* out from vertical (and 90* from one another). With the tx antenna horizontal one of the RX antenna would have about the same number of switching events but the other would be 3 times or more greater than the other meaning it's loosing contact and having to switch to the other 3 times as much.
Flying directly overhead is the only time having the TX antenna horizontal wasn't a bad idea and even then I'd imagine you'd need to fly several times the legal ceiling before you had problems with the antenna being vertical.
One of my two complaints about my new X9E taranis, I've got a high-gain antenna ordered for it thought so I can have it vertical too...
Taranis X9E | DEVO 10 | Devo U7E | Taranis Q7
What I do in real life: rivergoequestrian.com/
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- ThomasC
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17 May 2016 21:55 - 17 May 2016 21:59 #48611
by ThomasC
You're wrong. Graupner does use such patch antennas in their MC-transmitters. Range is somewhat limited compared to dipoles, but still is about 4km with the top RX's with four antennas, and signal quality is more stable.
Cheers
Thomas
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Replied by ThomasC on topic Antenna Orientation Question
Fernandez wrote: An interesting antenna would be circular polarized antenna, such as a ceramic patch antenna, the type of typical square GPS antenna, but no manufacturar uses that, don't know why?
You're wrong. Graupner does use such patch antennas in their MC-transmitters. Range is somewhat limited compared to dipoles, but still is about 4km with the top RX's with four antennas, and signal quality is more stable.
Cheers
Thomas
---
Last edit: 17 May 2016 21:59 by ThomasC.
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