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15 Dec 2013 09:59 #16655 by kreidler
Replied by kreidler on topic One manual
Thanks PB,

@WheresWaldo: Attached the changed screen.

I've have not put anew zip to http://www.deviationtx.com/forum/7-development/2375-release-3-1-0-screen-shots .
Attachments:

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15 Dec 2013 14:45 - 15 Dec 2013 15:19 #16662 by WheresWaldo
Replied by WheresWaldo on topic Moving menus around
Hey since you seem to be open to moving a menu or two if it helps the end user what if we moved 'Telemetry config' to the last item. I use telemetry but rarely change anything there once set up. I would assume most fly without telemetry if they got their Devo together with a small Walkera Heli or Multi. Maybe I am wrong, but the way I set up a new Heli is in this order:
  1. Model setup
  2. Mixers
  3. Timers
  4. Main page config
  5. then anything else is extra.
I am not a plank flyer so to them maybe telemetry config is more important. Perhaps a better order might be something like this:
  1. Model setup
  2. Mixers
  3. Timers
  4. Trims
  5. Model page config
  6. Telemetry config
  7. Datalog
Maybe even swap Trims and Timers, then the first three entries are used to control the aircraft and last four to tell you about what is going on. It would seem to be a much more logical reorder.
Last edit: 15 Dec 2013 15:19 by WheresWaldo.

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15 Dec 2013 15:33 - 15 Dec 2013 15:39 #16665 by WheresWaldo
Replied by WheresWaldo on topic One manual
ReSync, I made some changes this morning to pages 16 and 17 and need more editing. This edit basically moves the 'Model setup' up in the docs and reorders the items to match the screenshot.

Will post an extract and add it to my downloads this afternoon.

PB if you look at the current edit, please ignore the yellow highlighted text, that is just me thinking out loud and putting in a note to myself (I didn't investigate how to add revision notes in LibreOffice like I can in Word)

Edit: Ah, just found it, it's Ctrl-Alt-C
Last edit: 15 Dec 2013 15:39 by WheresWaldo.

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15 Dec 2013 17:22 #16667 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Moving menus around
I don't think there is a big reason to change the rest of the menus at this point. I'm going to leave them as they are.

FYI, I really don't think many folks should be playing with the trim settings. the defaults should be fine for most people.

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15 Dec 2013 17:54 #16669 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Moving menus around
Why have you renamed the software to 'deviationTX'? It is not the name of this project.

I'm not sure about how the 'Main Page' documentation is done. With completely variable page layout, documenting the precise layout may not be ideal. It could easily be confusing when downloading and installing someone else's models. On the other hand, describing the default layout is probably a good idea. Maybe it just needs to be more obvious that this is just the default (and yet I saw the 1st sentence, but if you haven't made it to the page-layout section, you probably wouldn't even notice it). Also the image should be regenerated. We fixed the icon display so you don't lose the helicopter landing gear.

The 'configurable items' section doesn't really make sense any more. With a fully configurable page layout, there is virtually no limit on anything you put on the page including the number of trims, the icons, boxes, etc.

It would be fine to put the protocol configuration in an appendix if you like, but between the advanced and standard mixer documentation doesn't flow right.

It might make sense to put the channel and telemetry displays with the main page descriptions. Finding documentation for it below the Tx config doesn't make much sense. Once Tx config is done, model config is the next thing I'd expect to see. Of course the menu itself needs to be documented with a reference to the detailed section.

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15 Dec 2013 18:49 - 15 Dec 2013 18:51 #16673 by WheresWaldo
Replied by WheresWaldo on topic Moving menus around

PhracturedBlue wrote: Why have you renamed the software to 'deviationTX'? It is not the name of this project.

Incorrect assumption on my part, will revert to 'deviation'.

I'm not sure about how the 'Main Page' documentation is done. With completely variable page layout, documenting the precise layout may not be ideal. It could easily be confusing when downloading and installing someone else's models. On the other hand, describing the default layout is probably a good idea. Maybe it just needs to be more obvious that this is just the default (and yet I saw the 1st sentence, but if you haven't made it to the page-layout section, you probably wouldn't even notice it). Also the image should be regenerated. We fixed the icon display so you don't lose the helicopter landing gear.

The 'configurable items' section doesn't really make sense any more. With a fully configurable page layout, there is virtually no limit on anything you put on the page including the number of trims, the icons, boxes, etc.

It would be fine to put the protocol configuration in an appendix if you like, but between the advanced and standard mixer documentation doesn't flow right.


I will see if kreidler will revisit this as it was a page he did the editing on. I did not really look at this carefully enough. Typical software documentation always will show default screen only and document it, It would be up to the end user to understand how to change it and what can be changed from documented descriptions of all items (even if all available options are not used in the default screens).

It might make sense to put the channel and telemetry displays with the main page descriptions. Finding documentation for it below the Tx config doesn't make much sense. Once Tx config is done, model config is the next thing I'd expect to see. Of course the menu itself needs to be documented with a reference to the detailed section.


I am not sure I understand the logic here. The options appear under the 'Transmitter menu'. Are you saying that all informational only screens should be lumped together in the documentation? And that it should be at the top?
Last edit: 15 Dec 2013 18:51 by WheresWaldo.

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15 Dec 2013 19:10 #16674 by WheresWaldo
Replied by WheresWaldo on topic Moving menus around
Reverted 'deviationTX' to 'Deviation' and uploaded it to my repo. I will look at the main page when I can, likely tomorrow.

Nothing past page 17 has been touched other than a cut and paste of the 'Model setup' to move it up under 'Model menu'.

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15 Dec 2013 19:15 #16675 by kreidler
Replied by kreidler on topic Moving menus around

PhracturedBlue wrote: I'm not sure about how the 'Main Page' documentation is done. With completely variable page layout, documenting the precise layout may not be ideal.
The 'configurable items' section doesn't really make sense any more. With a fully configurable page layout, there is virtually no limit on anything you put on the page including the number of trims, the icons, boxes, etc.

In general this was my first shot to elimate the emu stuff from the first pages. In any case I will change the wording to point out that this is the default and changes could be done via the 'Main page config'. Of course, if anything else could be done better I never have a problem with but how to change or remove the 'fixed items' with the 'Main page config' for a Devo 10?

PhracturedBlue wrote: We fixed the icon display so you don't lose the helicopter landing gear.

You notice even the detail I asked earlier for ;) . Sorry had not time to generate a correct screenshot. Will do it asap.

PhracturedBlue wrote: It would be fine to put the protocol configuration in an appendix if you like, but between the advanced and standard mixer documentation doesn't flow right.

I assume a formatting / draft problem only.

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15 Dec 2013 19:31 - 15 Dec 2013 19:40 #16676 by WheresWaldo
Replied by WheresWaldo on topic Moving menus around
Here is the default display, current.



Just for the sake of completeness here is the plane.

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Last edit: 15 Dec 2013 19:40 by WheresWaldo.

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15 Dec 2013 19:59 #16678 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Moving menus around
Thanks for updating the 'Deviation'. By the way, I didn't mean to come across as critical, and rereading my post it appears I may have. I really appreciate the work you guys are doing, and I think the direction you're taking is spot-on. This was the 1st time I spent time reading through the updates in detail, and just wanted to post the feedback I had so far.

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15 Dec 2013 21:13 #16684 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Moving menus around

WheresWaldo wrote:

It might make sense to put the channel and telemetry displays with the main page descriptions. Finding documentation for it below the Tx config doesn't make much sense. Once Tx config is done, model config is the next thing I'd expect to see. Of course the menu itself needs to be documented with a reference to the detailed section.


I am not sure I understand the logic here. The options appear under the 'Transmitter menu'. Are you saying that all informational only screens should be lumped together in the documentation? And that it should be at the top?

Not necessarily, but I'm saying we should consider it. If the purpose of the manual is to help setup the Tx and get users going, than explaining the info screens between the Transmitter setup and Model setup makes little sense, even ifit is how the menus are laid out.

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15 Dec 2013 22:51 - 15 Dec 2013 22:52 #16689 by kreidler
Replied by kreidler on topic Moving menus around
PB and everybody else, please do not stop with your comments but please bear in mind that we are sitting in different time zones and do have other jobs as main task :) . So, there could be some delay in finding the best way. I think we all know that any work which could be done now will avoid many questions in the forum.

@PB and WheresWaldo:
You are both talking from the same thing. After 'Main Menu' explanations follows 'Transmitter Menu' already where the Channel monitor and the telemetry stuff is explained. Follow step-by-step logical. I would recommend to have the blue main chapter headline formatted in another style to make it more clear and to avoid this issue. Chapter numbers?
The result would be that 2 of 3 menu items from the transmitter config would be shifted to another section. This makes no sense in my opinion even if both items could be placed somewhere else.
Last edit: 15 Dec 2013 22:52 by kreidler.

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16 Dec 2013 03:31 #16698 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Moving menus around
While I was waiting for my daughter's recital today, I did some quick edits for the Main page config. I'm sure it needs some cleanup but it is a start.

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16 Dec 2013 04:14 #16701 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Moving menus around
FYI, the question of style came up in the other thread. I guess I wrote the Deviation documentation mostly in second person present tense (tying to avoid personal pronouns (especially 1st-person ones) but not shirking them entirely). Personally, I don't like how 3rd-person reads. I prefer a more direct 'command' oriented documentation ('First do this, then do that' vs 'The user should first do this before doing that'). However, the Deviation documentation is filled with passive-tense stuff that should probably be expunged.

In the end though, consistency is more important than anything else, and I don't really care too much which style is used.

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16 Dec 2013 13:48 #16711 by WheresWaldo
Replied by WheresWaldo on topic Documentation Discussion
Can someone briefly explain to me what PPM In is used for or maybe write a two or three sentence description that I can paste into the new docs.

Thanks in advance.

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16 Dec 2013 14:12 #16712 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Documentation Discussion
'PPM In' is a new feature that probably requires more than just a couple sentences.
It has 2 uses:
1) It can be used for additional inputs. For instance, it was primarily requested by the FPV folks, who wanted to be able to control their camera motors from their headset (as you look around, the camera looks around) or at least that is my undersatnding of their use.

2) It is used to enable the transmitter to act as a Master in a buddy-box setup. Here the student configures his student for PPMOut, and the Instructor for PPMIn with a control switch. When the instructor has the switch set, the channels from the student replace those on the Tx. When the switch is cleared, the Instructor(Master) Tx resumes control

The settings hidden behind the button enable Deviation to be compatible with any other slave radio, enabling full control of the PPM speed and structure

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16 Dec 2013 14:55 #16714 by SadSack
Replied by SadSack on topic Documentation Discussion

PhracturedBlue wrote: 'PPM In' is a new feature that probably requires more than just a couple sentences.
It has 2 uses:
1) It can be used for additional inputs. For instance, it was primarily requested by the FPV folks, who wanted to be able to control their camera motors from their headset (as you look around, the camera looks around) or at least that is my undersatnding of their use.

2) It is used to enable the transmitter to act as a Master in a buddy-box setup. Here the student configures his student for PPMOut, and the Instructor for PPMIn with a control switch. When the instructor has the switch set, the channels from the student replace those on the Tx. When the switch is cleared, the Instructor(Master) Tx resumes control

The settings hidden behind the button enable Deviation to be compatible with any other slave radio, enabling full control of the PPM speed and structure


Just to add little to that.

1) 'head Tracker' or 'Camera Gimbal' or advanced option to add extra controls, switch's, potentiometer

2) Hope/should be able to also limit student control of craft. Meaning Full house plane Rud/Elv/Alr/Thro student can be limited to control everything but throttle.

Been very long time since done any but needed.

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16 Dec 2013 17:19 #16719 by WheresWaldo
Replied by WheresWaldo on topic Documentation Discussion
Thanks

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18 Dec 2013 13:42 - 18 Dec 2013 13:46 #16773 by WheresWaldo
Replied by WheresWaldo on topic Checking pages 17-21
@kreidler

Can you look over my edits on pages 17-21. It is mainly moving things around and added the text for PPM In. It is all to prepare for the big Mixer Types section. Please make note of the image of the channel sources, I pasted the same image twice and cropped the upper one from the bottom and the lower one from the top then added the arrow to indicate that its one long page of information. There could be a better way to do this but I am not a LibreOffice expert so I did it the easy (lazy) way.

But I want to make sure that the section above is okay before we start on the big chuck of information.

I pushed the changes up to my repo this morning.
Last edit: 18 Dec 2013 13:46 by WheresWaldo.

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18 Dec 2013 14:29 - 18 Dec 2013 14:34 #16775 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Checking pages 17-21
I made some minor changes to the Model setup page.

I'm concerned that a new user will not grasp the meaning of this paragraph:

The Deviation mixer is modeled after the Er9x implementation. Each output channel is composed of a series of one or more mixers each of which consists of a single input, an activation switch, and a function/curve that modifies the mixer output. This is a very powerful capability, but it is requires a lot of understanding to make full use of. In order to simplify implementation, there are 3 templates that have been defined to make defining channels easier.

Few users will have used Er9x, so while I mentioned it is is probably irrelevant here. The mention of the templates without further information doesn't flow well into the next paragraph. how about something along the lines of:

The 'advanced' GUI unleashes the full capabilities of the Deviation firmware, however it is unlike any commercial transmitter setup. Deviation also provides a more traditional setup interface for those who prefer it (see Standard Mixer). With the advanced GUI, each output channel is composed of a series of one or more mixers each of which consists of a single input, an activation switch, and a function/curve that modifies the mixer output. This is a very powerful capability, but it will require learning a completely different method for setting up a model. To aid in quick setup, there are a few pre-defined configurations available (see Model Templates), but to be learn to modify and configure a model, read through this entire section carefully.

Last edit: 18 Dec 2013 14:34 by PhracturedBlue.

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