Selective trim

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31 May 2016 18:02 #49661 by billmester
Selective trim was created by billmester
Hi,

After using my DEVO10 for years, I have been flying helis and electric planes. Now, I am trying nitro birds.

I am trying to configure a trim but I am stuck now. If anyone has some idea, please give me some help.
So: I am setting up a plane with a nitro engine. The goal is to have a switchable idle throttle opening (i.e. at -70, or at 15%)

The THR has 3 mixers:
#1: simple THR 1-to-1
#2: GEAR switch, with MAX mixer, fixed value (-70), TRIM enabled
#3: throttle hold (from this forum) on RUD DR switch

So far so good, throttle hold closes all. When open, THR operates 1-to-1, unless GEAR 1, in this case the THR minimum stops at 15%,
so the engine will not stop when the THR arm is pulled to zero, it keeps the idle open.

But I want to have "trim" on the idle. I want to trim only the value of -70 minimum value, but leave the max value on +100.
And only if the I have enabled the GEAR 1 (idle switch).

I picked the upper left trim button for this. The goal is to trim ONLY mixer #2 and the trim should have no
effect on the other mixers of the THR channel (otherwise the endpoint setting of the carburettor servo is messed up).

So far I could set it up only so that when I use the trim button, the values are changing in both #1 and #2 mixers.

Any ideas are welcome!

Thanks,
bm

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31 May 2016 18:32 #49663 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Selective trim
If you use the complex mixer, there is a button at the bottom of each page to set Trim or No Trim...

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31 May 2016 18:39 #49664 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Selective trim
Can you post your model.ini? I'm not understanding how you achieved the -70 min value, and this is likely the key to the whole thing.

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31 May 2016 18:44 #49665 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
Nope, that was my first idea too. But just double checked it, to be sure and it trims mixer#1 too (#1 and #3 set to NO TRIM)...
I have tried it with CH1 and THR entered into the Trim menu too... maybe I am messing up something at the Trim menu?

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31 May 2016 18:51 #49667 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
Here it is.
It is a work in progress and full of junk, as I was trying many options...
Normally I keep it clean but this one became a struggle :)

Sorry, the idle is on ELEV DR, the GEAR will be flaperons.

Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
bm
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31 May 2016 19:01 #49669 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Selective trim
The trim is actually applied to the result, not to the value of a specific mixer. so you can't use the trim directly just to set the endpoint. What you could do though would be to setup the trim as a virtual channel and use that channel as the source to the max function in the mixer (you would disable trim for all the throttle mixers in the complex mixer). This way the trim is just adjusting the limit, and is not adjusting the channel value itself. If you can't make it work, let me know and I'll whip up something in the emulator when I get home

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31 May 2016 19:30 #49671 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
Now this is strange... I have programmed a simple trim to VIRT8. Did not work. Copied (!) it to CH7. Works. Is it possible that trims only work with physical channels?

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31 May 2016 19:34 #49672 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
...and it works with NO TRIM too...

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31 May 2016 19:57 #49674 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Selective trim
I've made a simple model for you.
Only Ch1 and Virt1 are configured as a proof of concept.
TRIM L+- changes the output of Virt1, which is added as the second page to the throttle just as you have done with the max function.
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31 May 2016 20:00 - 31 May 2016 20:01 #49676 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Selective trim
sorry again I'm not sure what you are trying to explain.
when setting up a trim as a virtual channel, you should use a channel > 8 (not that it really matters, but still)
you would want to follow the instructions in the manual for how to do this (section 11.3)

I also have no idea what 'It' is in the statement 'It works with NO TRIM too' Sorry, but can you try to explain again?

Are you trying to follow my instructions above, or just play around with something different? as I said you will not be able to enable trims in the normal way to get the behavior you want.

EDIT: Or....you could just look at FDR's example, which is basically what I was trying to convey
Last edit: 31 May 2016 20:01 by PhracturedBlue.

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31 May 2016 20:07 #49677 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
Thanks, I'll try this now.
"It" meant that regardless of the TRIM / NO TRIM setting in the bottom, the trim button modifies the value of the channel.

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31 May 2016 20:21 #49679 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
I've tried it. Getting there :)
The .ini gave -100 to 100 THR range with ELEVDR off. Trim does not count.
ELEVDR on gave -100 to 80. Trim works, but offsets top AND bottom values too. (example: trim of 3 clicks gives -97 to 83)

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31 May 2016 20:58 #49682 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Selective trim
OK, try this.
I used an other virtual channel to eliminate the effect on the normal throttle values...
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31 May 2016 20:59 #49683 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Selective trim
Try the attached file.

I realized that the manual doesn't really describe how to do this. I did it using 2 virtual channels. I have a feeling this isn't necessary, but I don't have time to look at it further right now.
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31 May 2016 21:22 #49685 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
I don't know how you guys did this, but it works :) THANKS!!!!
(I'll try to understand it tomorrow, it is getting late here.... and my brain just shut down.)
It was actually an honor to be helped directly by You guys!
I'll post the finished .ini here when it is done.
Have a great day!
Cheers, bm

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31 May 2016 21:25 #49686 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
...and by the way, this is the bird that will use this .ini. :)
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01 Jun 2016 04:08 #49699 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Selective trim

billmester wrote: ...and by the way, this is the bird that will use this .ini. :)

Dögös! ;)

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01 Jun 2016 04:49 #49700 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
Köszi :)

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05 Jun 2016 21:23 #50000 by billmester
Replied by billmester on topic Selective trim
Aaaand here it is.

I still don't get it fully, how it works and why did I need Channel 7 for the 6 channel receiver (without it, it does not work), but now it works as I planned.
-RuddDR is used for Throttle Hold. Closes carburettor completely, no matter what.
-ELEVDR controls the Idle. When THRHOLD is enabled, then it keeps the carburettor open at 15%, and can be trimmed (upper left trim) from 5% to 25%. Trim only works when this is active, so avoiding surprises and saving the settings (I have added this.)
-MIX controls the onboard glow ignition driver
-FMOD sets the control throws
-AileDR resets the counter
-There are 2 aileron servos in this plane. I have made one common virtual channel, so with modifying one mixer will effect both. In case somebody wants differential.

This could be a good tepmlate for glow planes :)

Cheers
bm
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