Standard Mixer Take-2

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19 Feb 2013 06:53 #6554 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
Tested devo8-848e6ad
Timer page: If the choice for the switch is reduced to only the throttle channel (what is enough for my opinion) wouldn't it be better to reduce it to active/inactive (for switch and reset switch)?
BUG: if reset switch is configured (and set to ch3 in my case) the timer will never start (or will always be reset when running) because counting and resetting condition are equal (both countdown and stopwatch).

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19 Feb 2013 07:07 - 19 Feb 2013 07:43 #6555 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
BUG: D/R&Expo Page: changing values to idle up1 or 2 affects the curve for normal. Leaving the page and go back in shows wrong graphs. Same with changing the scale value.

EDIT: looks as if the values are saved correctly (saw different curves when changing to advanced), so only a display problem.
Last edit: 19 Feb 2013 07:43 by rbe2012. Reason: tested again

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19 Feb 2013 07:15 #6556 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
Pitch curve: If throttle hold is on or off is chosen on another page. What is the On/Off for in pitch curve? I think it should be removed for clarity.
Or: the On-Off-value should be the same as set in the throttle hold page (and if you change here should affect the throttle hold page) (although I think one place for changing the value would be better).
If it is used for something else: it's out of my imagination what it could be...(definitely not self-explanatory)

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19 Feb 2013 07:37 - 19 Feb 2013 07:37 #6557 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
Throttle Hold and Pitch curve - in some cases you may want 'zero' Pitch in addition to Throttle hold (minimum throttle).
Last edit: 19 Feb 2013 07:37 by vlad_vy.

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19 Feb 2013 07:42 #6558 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
Vlad: ok, but if I choose to use throttle hold, I do this in the throttle hold page. So in the pitch curve page I should only select what the pitch curve will be when throttle hold is on - no need to change it here to off (and it does not change anything as far as I have seen).

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19 Feb 2013 07:46 - 19 Feb 2013 07:50 #6559 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
Tested changing from standard to advanced mixer again.
I did not found any values which are not transferred correctly.
One thing was strange: the switch I have chosen for throttle hold (rud dr) was inverted in advanced mixer (!RUD DR0).

EDIT: see next post for travel adjust
Last edit: 19 Feb 2013 07:50 by rbe2012.

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19 Feb 2013 07:49 #6560 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
BUG?
The Travel Adjust page if made for setting the travel limits. But these values are transferred to the Scale+/Scale- values in advanced mixer, not to the limits.

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19 Feb 2013 07:53 - 19 Feb 2013 07:57 #6561 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote: Vlad: ok, but if I choose to use throttle hold, I do this in the throttle hold page. So in the pitch curve page I should only select what the pitch curve will be when throttle hold is on - no need to change it here to off (and it does not change anything as far as I have seen).


Case 1: used Throttle Hold, but not need to change Pitch curve (Off)
Case 2: used Throttle Hold and in addition you want to get 'zero/predefined' Pitch curve (On)
Last edit: 19 Feb 2013 07:57 by vlad_vy.

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19 Feb 2013 08:09 - 19 Feb 2013 08:10 #6562 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
Ah, I see. But I think it is confusing. Perhaps better "Change when active? Yes/no" or something similar (and the rest disabled if "no").
Last edit: 19 Feb 2013 08:10 by rbe2012.

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19 Feb 2013 09:12 #6563 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote: BUG: if reset switch is configured (and set to ch3 in my case) the timer will never start (or will always be reset when running) because counting and resetting condition are equal (both countdown and stopwatch).


I wouldn't necessarily call it a bug, it's rather a misconfiguration.
It works exactly how you've configured it to work. ;)

There are places all around where you can configure conflicting options, for example you can configure the idle up and the throttle hold to the same switch too...

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19 Feb 2013 09:26 #6564 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote: Pitch curve: If throttle hold is on or off is chosen on another page. What is the On/Off for in pitch curve? I think it should be removed for clarity.
Or: the On-Off-value should be the same as set in the throttle hold page (and if you change here should affect the throttle hold page) (although I think one place for changing the value would be better).
If it is used for something else: it's out of my imagination what it could be...(definitely not self-explanatory)


As Vlad has already pointed out, that option is for choosing if you want a plus curve for the throttle hold state or not.
However the name and the implementation is a bit confusing/misleading.

In case this throttle hold mode is 'off', I wouldn't generate the 4th complex page at all, and I would even hide the graph and all the values.
Suvsuv chose to retain the graph, but replaced the switch of the 4th complex page to 'Virt10', which supposed to be always false in this case...

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19 Feb 2013 09:37 #6565 by domcars0
Replied by domcars0 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
Hi,
Waht do you think if we remove the "Reset Src" in Standard Mode Timer conf (this feature is very particular and will probably never be used by a standard guy :huh: ).. ?

Devo 10 (+7e) owner. It's mine, please don't touch it with your big fingers :angry:

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19 Feb 2013 09:39 - 19 Feb 2013 10:19 #6566 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote: BUG?
The Travel Adjust page if made for setting the travel limits. But these values are transferred to the Scale+/Scale- values in advanced mixer, not to the limits.


No, I'm sure it is intended to be that way, the advanced gui works just like that.

The confusing part is that deviation has separate options for limiting the output value, and scaling it.
The conventional transmitters, like the original DEVOs for example, give you only the travel adjust option, wich is the equivalent of the scale in deviation.
However there you can't configure the values to reach over 100% (except for the dual rates you can go to +-125%), while in deviation you can add multiple values on a complex mixer, which can result in unpredictably higher values, so there is the limit as a final protection. (Not to mention, that we allow much higher scale values too...)

The difference is that if you only use the limits for setting the servo throw lower, then you will have flat bands at the endsticks, i.e. won't make use of the whole stick travel.
Last edit: 19 Feb 2013 10:19 by FDR.

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19 Feb 2013 09:49 #6567 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2
My complains about the naming is the 'Locked'/'Unlocked' button on the curve points.

As a programmer, I understand, that the field is what locked/unlocked, i.e. I can't edit vs can edit, but if I see it strictly as a curve point, it works the opposite way: when 'locked' it can change automatically with the neighbours, while it is constant if 'unlocked'.

So probably some more appropriate labels would help to understand it better.
The original fw used 'Inhibit'/'Active', but we could use 'Automatic', 'Auto', or 'Calculated' for example to make it clear...

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19 Feb 2013 11:02 #6569 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

FDR wrote:

rbe2012 wrote: BUG: if reset switch is configured ... the timer will never start...


I wouldn't necessarily call it a bug, it's rather a misconfiguration.
It works exactly how you've configured it to work. ;)

...

My problem is: if I want to configure a reset switch, I have only ch3 to choose, nothing else. Maybe this limitation is ok for the switch, but not for the reset switch.

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19 Feb 2013 11:10 #6570 by FDR
Replied by FDR on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote: My problem is: if I want to configure a reset switch, I have only ch3 to choose, nothing else. Maybe this limitation is ok for the switch, but not for the reset switch.


Yep, you are absolutely right!

I was playing with the timers only in advanced mode, but now I see, the 'standard' timers are too limited to be useful...

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19 Feb 2013 11:13 #6571 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

domcars0 wrote: Hi,
Waht do you think if we remove the "Reset Src" in Standard Mode Timer conf (this feature is very particular and will probably never be used by a standard guy :huh: ).. ?

(See my last post)
I think this would be ok since we have the gui to reset the counters.

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19 Feb 2013 11:16 #6572 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

FDR wrote: My complains about the naming is the 'Locked'/'Unlocked' button on the curve points....

I would support FDRs proposal. I was mislead more than once (don't get it into my brain, made it wrong every time).

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19 Feb 2013 11:31 #6574 by domcars0
Replied by domcars0 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote:

domcars0 wrote: Hi,
Waht do you think if we remove the "Reset Src" in Standard Mode Timer conf (this feature is very particular and will probably never be used by a standard guy :huh: ).. ?

(See my last post)
I think this would be ok since we have the gui to reset the counters.

For "countdown" and "stopwatch" timers, reset is made with the TX 'hard' buttons (no need gui) ... for the "permanent" timer there is always the Reset Button on the page setup.

Devo 10 (+7e) owner. It's mine, please don't touch it with your big fingers :angry:

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19 Feb 2013 11:39 #6575 by domcars0
Replied by domcars0 on topic Standard Mixer Take-2

rbe2012 wrote: My problem is: if I want to configure a reset switch, I have only ch3 to choose, nothing else. Maybe this limitation is ok for the switch, but not for the reset switch.

In 99% of cases, you will reset countdown and stop watch timer with the TX hard buttons, no need to configure a reset source ... If you need a timer Reset Source, probably you need Advanced Mixer GUI.

Devo 10 (+7e) owner. It's mine, please don't touch it with your big fingers :angry:

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