Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

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02 Jul 2013 00:04 #11694 by mwm
Having recently noticed that the left/right/up/down/exit/enter buttons are available as trims, I'd very much like to use them as momentary switches. This would be particularly useful on the 7E, given it's lack of other inputs.

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02 Jul 2013 07:03 #11717 by Kdean
Replied by Kdean on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
I have a 12s and i also find the trims to be some what limited by what they can do. They would be very handy if they could act as switches. And also it would be nice if we could use the trims on the display to show the things that bargraphs show.

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02 Jul 2013 13:45 #11742 by Scream
Replied by Scream on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
Welcome to the "I wish I had trim power" club boyz!

trims = quick menu ability for B/W screens!
trims = could be aux4/5 for non devo 10'ers!
trims = if they could trim expo values live... I'd be in devo10 heaven!!!

I'm sure the features will make their way into a future build now that I'm not alone in my desire to make them more than they are now:)

Happy flights yall!

-=S=-

Cheers!
-=S=-

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02 Jul 2013 13:51 #11745 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
If you want a feature in Deviation, the best way to go about it (assuming you can't code it yourself), is to get quorum here and then file a ticket on bitbucket.

If you skip the last step, it is likely to die in committee, since I use bitbucket to keep track of features I'm not currently working on.

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02 Jul 2013 14:59 #11755 by Scream
Replied by Scream on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
Hiya PB,

Duly noted, however I'm hesitant to add a ticket for anything since it then becomes "official" work? IF ever I should notice a grievous error I would, but requesting as a ticket for free software seems "uncouth".

I'm super appreciative for the functions and additions that are constantly being introduced to this wonderful FREE software! So far, just about every feature I've wanted or could think of eventually makes its way into a build!

It's nice to see its not just me who wanted this... wasn't sure if I was clued out or just being too fussy :)

Cheers!
-=S=-

Cheers!
-=S=-

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02 Jul 2013 15:28 #11758 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
I have no qualms about ignoring or closing tickets. But I honestly just can't remember all of the requests made potentially months apart, so the ticket system is the one I support for feature requests, but only after they've gained some amount of consensus on the boards.

Such requests may get closed unceremoniously, remain open for months, or even never be implemented, but at least I know they are there.

And there is never such a thing as being too fussy. The goal is always to make Deviation as good as it can be. Often we need to make tradeoffs to preserve consistency across transmitters, or due to other limitations, but generally, I'd like to at least understand how people want to use the software.

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02 Jul 2013 16:28 #11763 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
We are all here to make deviation better - some of us are able to code, others have good ideas for improvement, but are no programmers. Without the help of all deviation would be half as good as it is (PB, you know what I mean; I don't want to lower your work).

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02 Jul 2013 17:18 #11765 by Scream
Replied by Scream on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
Awesome!

I'm gonna try and play with todays nightly and open a "trim ticket" later on, when I can beter explain what I'm asking for :)

Just a thought about the "underprivileged" low mem'ers...

If you're rocking a $50 tx, you might not be flying something that requires all the bells and whistles... unless its pure ergonomics because you are a small person! :)

Perhaps a slight hardware mod on the users part isn't too much to ask if they intend to fully benefit from the full Deviation software?

2$ 1GB sD card + sd slot/reader.
Internally wired to the USB port with a switch to divert power between the 2. Devia then uses their limited stock memory for base firmware and sd card for media, models, lang files, icons...ect, similar to how android lets you store apps on sd.

Its probably way more effort that I can imagine, just some thoughts :)

Thanks!

Cheers!
-=S=-

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02 Jul 2013 17:30 #11766 by rbe2012
Replied by rbe2012 on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
Wiring it to USB is not possible because the USB implementation is only for slave devices and for a card reader it has to be in master mode.
A naked SD card reader is mostly connected via SPI bus, which is also used to communicate with the rf modules in the Devo tx.
But I do not know what is to do to access a filesystem, a file or whatever. At the first glance I would expect to eat too much resources for the smaller equipped Devos. At least it would need some really difficult soldering and this is something what even approved model builder often are not capable to do.

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02 Jul 2013 19:47 #11769 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
I'm unclear about how an sd card would help.
We have Devo8/10 which have plenty of storage for our needs and will (eventually) be limited by the on-board FLASH (program space) and RAM

We have the Devo12 which has a massive CPU which has lots of program space and RAM, and has a huge FLASH chip for storage along with a smaller one. The problem is that we can't use the large one for write operations without wear-leveling due to the chip they selected. So at the moment it is a read-only, and is programmed via the lib. The smaller flash is used for R/W. If I ever get wear leveling working we'll have full access to the devo12 storage space. Or if I ever finish the Java USB programmer, we will likely get access to it there (which isn't quite as good, but is close)

The devo7e has a tiny CPU with very little program memory and RAM. It also has a smaller flash chip for storage. Increasing the storage wouldn't help because the real limitation is the CPU itself. Replacing the CPU is something that very few people here could do successfully.

So I don't see any benefit in adding storage to any of the Devo transmitters.

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02 Jul 2013 22:16 #11787 by mwm
+Scream, if you create a "trim buttons" ticket, post the URL here so we can comment on it if needed, and don't open more than one.

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03 Jul 2013 01:32 #11793 by mwm
+PHB, wouldn't an SD card be useful if you wanted to log telemetry data?

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03 Jul 2013 01:47 #11795 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
On the devo12 we could theoretically write files that are multiples of 128kB to the parallel flash drive. There's 16 MB of space there, of which we use around 1MB today. On the devo8/10 there's ~2MB remaining for data logging.
Log data takes up ~112 bytes per second to capture all available info. At that rate, you can run for ~2.5hr per MB of file space.

At the moment that isn't possible on the devo12, but it is something we could implement that would likely be easier than adding sdcard support.

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03 Jul 2013 14:35 - 03 Jul 2013 14:39 #11806 by Xermalk
Replied by Xermalk on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
This feature would really help the devo 7e in combination with the additional stick mod.

Would work as a replacement for the dr pots the 7E is missing. Though an audio or vibration notification on fixed dr or aux channel levels would be needed, so one doesn't have to look at the tx midflight.

Would also be nice to dedicate a trim button to bank/condition switching on gyros that support it.
Last edit: 03 Jul 2013 14:39 by Xermalk.

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03 Jul 2013 17:22 - 03 Jul 2013 17:23 #11812 by rototophe
Replied by rototophe on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
I want to support the feature request giving the ability to turn the trim buttons into switches. It would be great if they could be configured as momentary (spring loaded switch) and/or toggle.
Last edit: 03 Jul 2013 17:23 by rototophe.

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03 Jul 2013 20:42 #11822 by mwm
I've created an issue for this on the deviationTx github repository. It's #372 if anyone wants to go look.

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04 Jul 2013 04:46 - 04 Jul 2013 13:11 #11844 by PhracturedBlue
Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
Okay, I checked in a proof of concept for this capability. I may change how it works so don't get too attached to the implementation. this was just 20 minutes of hacking to see if it worked.

Here is how it works.

On the trim page, if you set the 'step' to the smallest possible value, the label will change to 'Momentary'. Now the trim will act like a momentary switch. If you set it to the largest possible value, it will change to 'Toggle'.

To use:
set the step to either max or min value
set the src to an unused channel (Virt1)
set the Trim+ to the trim in question
set the Trim- to None
on the mixer, select the channel from above (Virt1)
set the type to 'complex'
set the Curve to 'fixed'
set the scale to 0
set the trim button to 'Trim' (thanks RBE)
Now your Virt1 is a switch controlled by the Trim you selected.
In momentary mode it will only be +100 when held.
In toggle mode, it will toggle between -100 and 100 each time you press the switch.
Last edit: 04 Jul 2013 13:11 by PhracturedBlue.

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04 Jul 2013 05:55 - 04 Jul 2013 06:59 #11852 by vlad_vy
Replied by vlad_vy on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
Will this eliminate step 0.1 for trims?

How it is implemened at Futaba 3PK (car Tx), ch3 trim step (1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 3PS, 2PS)
- step 200 = 2-position switch 2PS (-100, +100)
- step 100 = 3-position switch 3PS (-100, 0, +100)
- step 50 = 5-position switch (-100, -50, 0, +50, +100)
...
- step 1 = 200 clicks (-100 ~ +100)

Possible we can add 3PS-Alt (momentary, -100, 0, +100) and 2PS-Alt (momentary, -100, +100), trim steps without memory.

Once more question, what to do negative trim step values?
Last edit: 04 Jul 2013 06:59 by vlad_vy.

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04 Jul 2013 06:10 #11853 by Daryoon
Replied by Daryoon on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?
Oh boy. I just came on the forum to search for this very feature. Thanks guys.

Now to wait on the Nightly Build to test it out.

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04 Jul 2013 10:14 - 04 Jul 2013 10:19 #11861 by FDR
Some thoughts about the new trim config:

1. Is there any sense of the configurable switch, when the trim step is toggle or momentary? If not, it could be hidden...

2. Do the toggle and/or momentary switches use both trim+ and trim- definitions? If not, the unused one could be hidden on both the trim config page and the trims list.

3. Can the two directions of the same trim button be used for two distinct toggle or momentary switches? If so, the six possible configuration slots will be a limiting factor.

4. There might be an other configuration as well: to use a trim button as a switch. Pushing up would turn it on, while pushing down would turn it off. It is similar to the toggle, but you don't have to care about what state it was before...

5. Further advance the point 4. it could have more then two states, but having more then three states would complicate it's usage, since the values would be for example for a four state button: -100, -66.7, +66.7, +100 :lol:
Last edit: 04 Jul 2013 10:19 by FDR.

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