Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

FDR
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04 Jul 2013 10:21 #11862 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

Oh, and one more:

6. I think it would be better to keep these options on the same end of the scale, or implement all of them on both ends...

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PhracturedBlue
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04 Jul 2013 13:01 #11867 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

FDR wrote: Some thoughts about the new trim config:

1. Is there any sense of the configurable switch, when the trim step is toggle or momentary? If not, it could be hidden...

I can' think of a way this would be useful in the current implementation.

2. Do the toggle and/or momentary switches use both trim+ and trim- definitions? If not, the unused one could be hidden on both the trim config page and the trims list.

If you specify both trim+ and trim- they will both act the same, so (except for (4) below) the trim- could be hidden.

3. Can the two directions of the same trim button be used for two distinct toggle or momentary switches? If so, the six possible configuration slots will be a limiting factor.

yes they can, and increaing the number of trims will be necessary.

4. There might be an other configuration as well: to use a trim button as a switch. Pushing up would turn it on, while pushing down would turn it off. It is similar to the toggle, but you don't have to care about what state it was before...

That is a good idea

5. Further advance the point 4. it could have more then two states, but having more then three states would complicate it's usage, since the values would be for example for a four state button: -100, -66.7, +66.7, +100

I'm not sure how I feel about this. How useful are switches like that since it wouldn't act at all like a 3 position switch elsewhere? Deviation internally has 2 types of switches:
1) non-switches have a single 'input' and toggle at value>0
2) real switches have 2 or 3 inputs only one of which will ever be > 0

If I added a 3rd position properly, I'd need to do quite a bit of work to make Deviation understand it as a 3-pos switch, and I want to keep the implementation simple.

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PhracturedBlue
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04 Jul 2013 13:03 #11868 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

FDR wrote: Oh, and one more:

6. I think it would be better to keep these options on the same end of the scale, or implement all of them on both ends...

I will probably implement it as either a button press on the spinbox, or I'll get rid of negative trim steps (you can just reverse trim+ and trim- if you want that, right?) and put them all below 0.

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rbe2012
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So much to do, so little time...

04 Jul 2013 13:04 - 04 Jul 2013 13:08 #11869 by rbe2012

Replied by rbe2012 on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

I played with it and it works good in my Devo12.
PB, you forgot to mention that "TRIM" shall be selected in the mixer (I needed some time to find this but it does make sense...).

To FDRs proposals:
1 and 2 is result of the PoC, i think.
3: I believe not because there is only one phys. contact on the trim button for a specific direction TRIMX+ / TRIMX-
4: I fully support this.
5: is similar to vlad's proposal in comparison with Futaba as far as I have understood. It could be an interesting application for light control where a single channel is translated to different light displaying. Also for fix positions for flaps or those things planes seems to need... But in this case it should not be rolling only in one direction as toggling would do. There should be a way to move in the other way with a second trim (normally TRIMX+ for one and TRIMX- for the other direction).
6: Also a good idea - maybe in combination with 1 (negative trim steps could be removed in the code or at least ignored by the user)

In conclusion I thing this is a really good feature esp. for the tx with less switches and dials.

EDIT: PB was faster.
I don't understand your answer to 3 - I can not imagine how this could work (unless FDR/you meant one trim button with its two directions)
To 5: just read the last value and add a fixed amount with every click - my possibly naive imagination...

Last edit: 04 Jul 2013 13:08 by rbe2012.

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PhracturedBlue
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04 Jul 2013 13:09 #11870 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

vlad_vy wrote: Will this eliminate step 0.1 for trims?

How it is implemened at Futaba 3PK (car Tx), ch3 trim step (1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 3PS, 2PS)
- step 200 = 2-position switch 2PS (-100, +100)
- step 100 = 3-position switch 3PS (-100, 0, +100)
- step 50 = 5-position switch (-100, -50, 0, +50, +100)
...
- step 1 = 200 clicks (-100 ~ +100)

you could get this behhavior more or less if I made the trim steps progressive instead of linear (as they did).
for instance 0 to 5 at 0.1 step increments
5 to 10 at .5 increments, 10 to 100 at 1 step increments
If we get rid of the negative steps that is no issue.

However, they won't be true switches as I mentioned in my response to FDR.

One more question, what to do negative trim step values?

I can't think of any reason for them.

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PhracturedBlue
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04 Jul 2013 13:15 - 04 Jul 2013 13:15 #11871 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

rbe2012 wrote: I don't understand your answer to 3 - I can not imagine how this could work (unless FDR/you meant one trim button with its two directions)

I took it to mean, trimv+ is assigned to one channel and trimv- is assigned to do something different (another channel).
each trim is just 2 momentary buttons physically. This is how I envisioned using it.

To 5: just read the last value and add a fixed amount with every click - my possibly naive imagination...

see my reply to vlad.

Last edit: 04 Jul 2013 13:15 by PhracturedBlue.

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myxiplx
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04 Jul 2013 16:16 - 04 Jul 2013 16:17 #11890 by myxiplx

Replied by myxiplx on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

Wow, love the ideas you guys come up with.

I've been reading up about momentary switches and their use with rescue modes on the more advanced FBL controllers, and was lamenting the lack of these switches on the Devo10 and wondering if I would be able to modify the controller to add a switch.

... and now you're adding in a feature that gives me 6 of these for free, without having to sacrifice any existing toggle, and 4 of them are right at my fingertips and are perfect for rescue modes!!

Thanks guys! Loving Deviation. Choosing Walkera so I could run this was the best decision I've made since getting into RC Heli's.

Last edit: 04 Jul 2013 16:17 by myxiplx. Reason: Correcting some horrible english...

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PhracturedBlue
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04 Jul 2013 21:08 #11909 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

I added the On/Off type of switch using up/down.
I moved the switches to be < 0.1
I got rid of negative trims and added the ability to have values 10 to 100
I added more trims (10 total on 6/8/10/12, 6 total on 7e)

Still to do:
Hide the 'Trim-' and 'Switch' values when not needed

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rototophe
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05 Jul 2013 02:16 #11922 by rototophe

Replied by rototophe on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

Thanks PB for working on the request so fast

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mwm
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05 Jul 2013 17:32 #11956 by mwm

Replied by mwm on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

I grabbed the nightly build for the 7E, and it doesn't seem to want to do anything but be a trim. Is this not in the 7e? Have the instructions changed since they were posted? Is there some step that is obvious to everyone but me that I'm missing?

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

My remotely piloted vehicle ("drone") is a yacht.

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FDR
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05 Jul 2013 17:49 #11957 by FDR

Replied by FDR on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

Don't know about the nightly build, but in my current build the three options are there, left from the 0.1 value...

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Daryoon
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05 Jul 2013 18:14 #11959 by Daryoon

Replied by Daryoon on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

The nightly build was submitted on the 3rd. So prior to all this activity.

You'll have to await an updated nightly build. Or go to the thread where someone already did all the work with instruction on how to set up a build environment.

I followed the step by step and got a successful build the first time. It took longer to await the download of the 600mb VM.

Thanks guys.

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mwm
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05 Jul 2013 19:06 #11970 by mwm

Replied by mwm on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

I can already make my own builds. I was trying to avoid creating a branch for my experimental stuff just for a sneak peak at this. Oh well.

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PhracturedBlue
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05 Jul 2013 19:10 #11971 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

mwm wrote: I can already make my own builds. I was trying to avoid creating a branch for my experimental stuff just for a sneak peak at this. Oh well.

The changes seem to have broken the devo7e build on my build machine, hence the lack of updates. I need to investigate why it is ok on my development machine and not the build machine.

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Daryoon
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05 Jul 2013 19:19 #11972 by Daryoon

Replied by Daryoon on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

mwm wrote: I can already make my own builds. I was trying to avoid creating a branch for my experimental stuff just for a sneak peak at this. Oh well.

Ah, I see. Here's a copy:
www.box.com/s/cm6qyvsfy936zcy6rat4

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PhracturedBlue
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05 Jul 2013 19:40 #11974 by PhracturedBlue

Replied by PhracturedBlue on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

I fixed the build. GCC is not very consistent in how it builds. The nightly should be ok now.

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mwm
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05 Jul 2013 20:42 #11982 by mwm

Replied by mwm on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

Daryoon wrote:
mwm wrote: I can already make my own builds. I was trying to avoid creating a branch for my experimental stuff just for a sneak peak at this. Oh well.

Ah, I see. Here's a copy:
www.box.com/s/cm6qyvsfy936zcy6rat4

While I appreciate the offer (and I suspect others do as well), I'd already cleaned up my repo and built the latest sources.

Thanks, though.

Do not ask me questions via PM. Ask in the forums, where I'll answer if I can.

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mwm
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06 Jul 2013 18:33 #12020 by mwm

Replied by mwm on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

Ok, I updated to the latest source (a few minutes ago), built and installed that on my 7E. I think I followed the instructions properly (I've checked it numerous times), but I'm still not getting a toggle. I'm not getting a beep from the button, even.

Could someone check my settings to let me know what I've missed?

Mix is on Virt6, Complex, 1 mixer, page 1, Switch is None, mux is replace, Src is None, Curve is fixed, Scale is 0, Offset is 0, Trim.

I set up the fifth trim: Input is Virt6, Trim - is None, Trim + is Right, Trim Step is Toggle, Switch is None.

I believe that "Right" means the button labeled R+ on the 7E.

The Tx says it's running Deviation-3.0.0-ddf6350.

Thanks

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Kdean
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06 Jul 2013 23:23 #12023 by Kdean

Replied by Kdean on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

I know alot of time is being spent on getting the trims to act as switches, but what about getting the trims on the display to act like bargraphs.

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rbe2012
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So much to do, so little time...

07 Jul 2013 08:31 #12025 by rbe2012

Replied by rbe2012 on topic Feature request: Trim buttons as switches?

mwm wrote: I believe that "Right" means the button labeled R+ on the 7E.

Yes.

Your config looks ok an I just tried it with the last emulator and it worked fine when I select UP or DOWN bot not with LEFT or RIGHT. They seem to be used for other things (quickpages) on the main page.
This is the same in emu_devo12-v3.0.0-ddf6350.

PhracturedBlue, should left and right be removed as toggle buttons to avoid confusion?

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